why is FW's adaptive bg not competitive?

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by OriginalG1, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    St has had a solid adaptive bg for while, I have seen KF do adaptive well, FS' adaptive bg is beyond awesome, why is FW's clunky?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  2. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    upload_2017-3-8_2-25-23.png
    this is my 1st attempt at one. I am using illusion of lies on Croma Visionary. Basically if they are not adaptive they are meant to stall. Demonologist and Bone Circle Archmage give me summon killers or spot 10 damage. This is really early and i am trying to work things out.

    A chop'n block deck with adaptive might work but i am worried about the relics over taking the spells if i do that.

    I would really enjoy community battle group posts to help us shape this into something competitive. Post a be and not one or two rune suggestions so we get an idea of spacing in the bg please.
     

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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  3. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    The FW playstyle is entirely the reason why. most spells we run are generally high cost high impact spells. that you'll use very rarely until the moment you need them. until then we continue deploying over and over to sustain the battle until we eventually out number the opponent. if we stop constantly deploying and replace that with frequent little buff/little impact moderate cost spells we lose. Plain and simple
     
    davre likes this.
  4. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    illusion of lies on Croma Visionary is my favorite thing ever. I might start to play fw again.
     
    DiCEM0nEY likes this.
  5. Somnolence

    Somnolence The King of Potatoes

    I disagree with Macca, there's no reason why FW can't play like other factions (except maybe UD). Main problem is that we lack good 35-40 nora spells. All other factions have pretty good 35 nora spells which brings the most out of the Adaptive ability.

    Consider using two hungry hands. It's got high utility and works well with Adaptive. Desecration is probably better than Depths of Despair. I'd take out Festering wounds for a second Decay, probably take out Tomb (not helpful in this bg) and Reaper's Blade too (you're boosting your champs anyway, would be a shame to loss it all)

    If you want to stall, add another Wandering Zombie, and maybe Mindflyer Queens (they're amazing with Pounce and Poison Sting, and gives Mindflyer so Desecration is less likely to hit your champs).

    IDK what Cull of the Weak is doing in there, but it's a terrible spells atm. It costs too much and it doesn't contribute much.

    Since you're using Spectre already, might as well, throw in some spirits in there for stealth and stall (like another Ethereal Soldier or Haunting Spirits).

    WHERE MOBI AT?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  6. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    depths of despair will hit IS for 2 damage. hungry dead is a big goose egg against IS and same with desecration. (4 spells that do nothing against IS in an adaptive bg would not be the best move) Additionally fw leaves champs in the 6-8 hp range all the time i find. I see the point of hungry dead. Hungry dead just dose nothing against IS and it drives me crazy. Cull is loss of life and will do the full 8 damage. not bad. I use ethereal and adaptive on genesis lich so they are combining with Spectre. Cull gives me some jars for Brightmoon Lich too. I could see reapers blade being replaced with soulreave dropping the depth of despair for desecration so i could still beat up relics while soulreave is active. (depth is cheaper though and works on IS.)

    Another crown of night barbs might help too. No mobi because Elsari Bazaar can usually do the trick, mobi is better with a mob mentality bg. I also use bazaar to give me a slight refund on tomb and crown of night barbs.

    I dunno i am still testing, post a bg I will try it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  7. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    soulsbane is 15 Lol. same effectiveness against every faction for 15 damage. global debuff on kill too
     
  8. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    hmmm. you would drop call of weak for soul bane then? I might drop Brightmoon Lich because the jar spawn would become completely dependent on Genesis Lich. Not the wrost. i dunno. dropping chain lighting for soulbane would be interesting too. Weak spells like Depths of Despair make a good back fire/ snow blind test.
     
  9. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    keep in the brightmoons. eternal life doesnt cost any nora so its not losing out by not having phylacterys.
     
    DiCEM0nEY and OriginalG1 like this.
  10. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    upload_2017-3-18_18-41-41.png
    this version is working a little bit better then the 1st. Including sac dagger, culler, death gaurd helps to keep adaptive champs alive.
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  11. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Good post, can anyone confirm the accuracy? Might reevaluate hoarfrost lich
     
  12. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Adaptive bgs are pretty meta for fw, I just prefer to call them "good stuff". The only reason they "suck" is because the fw bonus does not go well with them.

    Vul frost is a pretty big weaknesses in an amp frost meta as well.

    However, I think ethereal + vul physical + mirrored is a decent start. More talk later
     
  13. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

  14. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Ah, I don't think it's actually 0 Nora, it's just not an upgrade, so the database can't determine the cost.

    Champions have a base cost, the a modified cost, which adds or subtracts from the formulated base cost. I suspect eternal digs into the modified cost at the very least, if not the base cost. I could be wrong however.
     
  15. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    You are, in fact, wrong. No added cost.
     
  16. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    You can't prove that
     
  17. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Well What you said is not the case. There's plenty of unique abilities that aren't on upgrades that the prices are displayed as. For example tundra menace from elemental core
     
  18. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    The databases don't scrub their costing data by comparing upgrades -- it's straight from the code. While eternal life used to cost nora, you can find the record of its cost reduction here: http://forums.poxnora.com/index.php?threads/patch-notes-april-7th-2016.22533/#post-305455

    Like macca said, whether or not something is listed as an upgrade does not affect its list value in the various databases. If you are still really in doubt, ask @Sokolov
     
  19. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    My point was that no1 knows the exact way the formula is calculated, so you can't say if an upgrade costs something or not if it is not on the path, since you don't have anything to compare it with. With the manual changes devs make to costs, these upgrades are even harder to figure out.

    After looking at hoarfrost, I probably won't run him. His upgrades seem really wonky. Crystallize / freeze doesn't seem very strong either.
     
  20. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Fair enough. Can't argue with code.
     

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