What runes are above the curve?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by davre, Dec 29, 2017.

  1. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    I apologize if that's the way everybody is interpreting this thread, but that is not my intent. I chose a system where people vote for 8 champions to prevent this thread from devolving into a "nerf X faction" thread, which is already plentiful. Each faction has multiple strong runes that carry the faction, and this is reflected in the votes, where none of the factions have a consensus "top champ". I am not the lead designer and I don't expect this thread to have any more influence on Sok's decisions than any of the dozen other nerf threads we get each month.

    Again, there is no final outcome of this vote and, as such, there is no "first past the post" system where something happens to the 8 champs with the most votes. I am curating a voting system because I (a) like systems, and (b) am interested in gathering a plurality of perspectives without having a handful of aggressive posters control the discourse.

    I also strongly disagree with your contention that this thread will harm themes. Culling down runes that are powerful in all situations allows runes that are powerful in particular situations to rise up. Themes are built around the latter. If you would like to participate in the system and sway the results toward your own ideals, please do so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  2. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!


    not sure how you can nerf anything without harming themes, the sub set of runes that apply to a theme deck is exponentially smaller then is available to splits and circus styled FF decks so while some themes can take a nerf an move on to the next thing on the list, decks such as frost or literally any split deck wouldn't be phased by any individual nerf, others drop like rocks over the smallest of hits, take kento since she's familiar to me, she's likely the strongest rune in monks, NKD, or even jakei(it's a thing i hear now...), and a very highly ranked champ in frost by anyone but me.

    3 of the 4 themes Kento applies to are pretty bad as is and only get worse with a nerf to Kento, while the circus deck and frost deck won't be bothered much at all by it, should I choose to nerf her I would likely try to buff some runes in both nkd an monks, to try to compensate for the nerf to keep them at least as averagely playble, next for sake of argument let's say frost is keeping skeletons in check due to aoe spam or something like that, now that kento is out and the deck is less viable suddenly skeletons shoot up in popularity and power as the counter to them was nerfed, overly simplified an exaggerated on that second point but was trying to simplify a concept.

    I choose kento for that example but it's just as valid if i'm taking abut primordial and elementals, and KB or any other run an their themes

    I admit predicting the effects on the meta is practically impossible but the effects these runes have on themes are significant regardless. In faction synergy and theme effects are far easier to predict so should always be considered.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  3. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    @calisk I have to agree with @potatonuts - you're not exactly contributing to the thread right now, but rather arguing about the method used to provide people's feedback in it. If you wish to discuss the impact of nerfs, you can do so in your own thread but not here.
     
  4. calisk

    calisk I need me some PIE!

    sigh...well i'm falling on deaf ears it seems so as you said i'll leave you to your own devices.
     
  5. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Like i said you can start your own thread about your dislike of nerfs, i actually agree with some of the points you are bringing up and have my own opinions about how zombies have been hit too hard by unnecesary nerfs. This just isn't the right place for it.
     
  6. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    I mean, GD discussions always get filtered through the council anyway so it's more like poking the hornet nest.
     
  7. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    There are quite a few above the curve, which is inevitable, but the only ones I see as being noticeably out of line are (in order of magnitude):

    Mika (66 Nora)
    - has initiative on the summons which takes away a big disadvantage of summon champs - tempo
    - has heal, a rare ability in faction
    -Is cheap, immediately impactful, resilient, and has a value that scales high the longer the game goes on (for little initial cost).

    Spirit of the Mountain
    - is practically unkillable without serious dedication and available magic damage.
    -has immediate impact and high damage potential
    -has two champs which gives greater flexibility
    The only disadvantage is FR ruins it.

    Icefang:
    The kinetic impulse ranged stance thing is just too synergistic.

    Kento:
    Even with the nerf this remains above the curve - a combination of high damage potential, utility, and survivability.

    Tempted to add Dunes Manticore too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  8. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    please to move ur derail somewhere else.

    thanks.

    e: thanks, etherielin
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
    Etherielin likes this.
  9. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    Oh I understand that you were speaking in broader terms but I think your opinion about that more or less matches up with what I've been thinking about themes.

    Anyway I'll stop derailing the thread now, sorry Davre
     
  10. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    IS:
    Upvote Carrier Squire
    Downvote Terraformer
     
  11. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY I need me some PIE!

    ST:
    Goblin butt lover
     
  12. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    Please follow the rules that are laid out in the OP.

    I will need 1 more for each faction to accompany your vote for Tracker Gnark.
     
  13. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    "Nails are fine as long as they're in ST"

    -Calisk
     
  14. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Follow the rules. It's whats stopping this thread just becoming a list of the 50 best runes from each faction.
     
  15. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Downvote: Kento
    Upvote: Crystal phoenix

    I really don't think Kento is that strong anymore. She's definitely powerful, but there are a ton of ways to deal with NKD now.

    Crystal phoenix is just so efficient. DF is even better in ST with the high hp pools, and ST loves cheap champs to swap/gale.
     
  16. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    I'm actually letting the non-champ thing go since loads of people decided not to read the rules early and I'm more interested in getting a lot of opinions rather than controlling the discussion. Feel free to update your thoughts to reflect that.
     

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