What are your thoughts on UKIP?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ragic, Aug 4, 2018.

  1. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    Are these guys the future of that party?
  2. Gaverion

    Gaverion I need me some PIE!

  3. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Ukip official policy is becoming more far/alt right despite what all the Ukip members seem to say, weirdly.

    where it will go who knows, they've been a fringe one issue party which never won a major ellection. they did force the conservatives to do the brexit vote to prevent people leaving the party which seems to be resulting in a complete disaster
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
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  4. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    so do you think a party like that can be 'taken over' by the intellectual dark web? apparently that Brexit drum still needs beating.
    Geressen likes this.
  5. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    I think that UKIP has been massively influential, but with Brexit has also completely achieved what it set out to do.

    It has therefore lost it's reason for existing, and so has lost a lot of it's voting base.

    To reinvent it as an alt-right party , or new young people right wing party (which it never has been,) will require going seriously against it's momentum.

    Ultimately, the 'no platforming' thing is small beer compared to the long existing interests that determine who can enter British political life and i really don't see that changing no matter how many youtube hits these lot get.
    Geressen likes this.
  6. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Is this what they call otherwise smart people that fall into ideological tar traps?
    sure, the thing with political parties is anyone can join and if enough join to change the party then the party changes, that is why I am happy that in the Netherlands we solved that issue by just having a gazillion parties that have to then work together as a coalition.
  7. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    the long existing interests that determine who can enter political life

    in America we call them voters.
  8. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath


    BurnPyro and Geressen like this.
  9. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    oh I get it. the establishment elected Trump. k
  10. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    hillary throwing the election is closer to what let trump win, i think
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  11. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    Trump is a celebrity multi millionaire, who was given the permission of the party establishment to have a chance at the presidency.

    Anyway, the nature of the political balance in Britain is that the biggest enemy of a new right wing party is the Conservative party. The left will be very happy to see them as it will split the right wing vote in the same way the left is split between labour and liberal democrats.

    The Tories will go to great lengths to shut down UKIP - even to the extent of calling a referendum on Brexit. Without the threat to the Tory monopoly on the right vote Brexit would never have happened.

    So I'm not saying that UKIP can't reinvent itself as a insurgent right wing party, just that both momentum is against them (they were/are a single issue party whose issue has been won) and that political establishment is against them.

    These internet alt-right types could certainly take over UKIP if they wanted, as UKIP struggles to even find candidates and would be happy for someone to take over. The question is what they can do with it.

    It has brand recognition, but that recognition is tied to a defunct single issue - it's going to be very hard to change that.
  12. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    You can run as an independent. You don't HAVE to use the party structure. Not even sure you even need to be rich with the internet these days, but I'm sure it helps.

    My understanding is that UKIP was basically a Brexit party. And once it was voted on, the purpose of that party went away. But now it seems the... establishment... is ok with a 'soft brexit'. So the purpose for UKIP may not be done yet.

    And of course there is the fact that Brexit happened in the first place. So no, the establishment isn't in full control. You should be happy about that.
  13. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    here is a poll from last year of about 52000 people


    IF purple ( UKIP) grows it will mostly take voters from blue, since conservatives won the past election (barely) you can see most of the voting bloc is older.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
  14. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    Did she throw the republican primary?
  15. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    Did you look at the "deep bench" the GOP turned up? They did that themselves. Each one of their 'establishment' candidates was the same bland filler in a different empty suit, and all the non-establishment ones were some kind of crazy. Trump both got the most free media coverage and committed the most to the crazy, because it turns out telling that base what they want to hear instead of anything that's remotely practical or consistent is good enough for their vote
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  16. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    Well the debate around Brexit certainly continues, especially within the Conservative party.

    If there is a very 'soft brexit' which retains free movement with the EU then I think there would be a backlash to that - but I doubt that will happen, Theresa May has already publically acknowledged that immigration is a prime motive for the referendum and so she is now bound to respect this.

    There are other areas she could concede such as EU legislation applying to the UK and the UK contributing to the EU budget - these would be unpopular but probably not enough to bring UKIP back to relevance.

    My personal feeling is we'll see a very protracted exit - with free movement continuing for several years, EU legilislation continuing indefinitely in part, and budget contributions continuing for many years.

    This will allow May to not change much for now, but still say that we are in the process of leaving - which we will be, just slowly.
  17. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    so.. the voters. thanks

    and if you want to throw blame, how about the idiotic left who will only live in New York or California. Cant win the presidency with only 2 states. Sorry.
  18. Dagda

    Dagda Forum Royalty

    I'm not throwing blame, I'm saying that Trump succeeding by failing least of all the candidates on the field. Which is pretty crazy if you think about it, but yeah. I don't view Trump as having been a sure thing at any point in the campaign trail, but he ended up winning so hey

    Also, I live in MD, a state that gets called for the Dems at 0% of the votes actually counted pretty regularly (which is interesting because we've also got a Republican governor). I do agree that the left has to own their side of the isolationist divide, and if I *were* throwing blame it would be solely at the left. That the right didn't have any better candidates than Trump is not a surprise in the slightest since the Republican party and their base have been shifting and splitting more since Palin hit the national stage, but that Hillary managed to lose to him is still pretty impressive a ****up
  19. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    you keep framing Trump as a bad candidate. I get it that you don't like him because hes a big slap of reality in the face, but a BAD candidate? Seems to me the gamed the system perfectly. And yeah the republicans had a lot of candidates. perhaps that is what happens when you don't rig your primaries.
  20. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    this reminds me of this: ( from 2:06 )

    he's bad because he just tells lies or does the worst things possible. that Americans fall for it is on them.

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