SP Themes revamping

Discussion in 'Shattered Peaks' started by Woffleet, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    Same as OP. Post your ideas on changing the current themes to become more flavorful.
  2. xezno

    xezno I need me some PIE!

    What is SPs most viable theme currently? Voil? Hyaenid? I was thinking about making a SP theme deck to play around with and didn't know which to start with. Cyclops look annoying with so many 2x2. Just like centaurs.

    Also assumed by asking here it might get some discussion going for the main topic.
  3. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    I think Voil? not sure. Thanks for posting!
    xezno likes this.
  4. Grandpa69

    Grandpa69 The King of Potatoes

    Voils for sure but I like moga too , mika got some kind of buff and the price of moga lord's guard has been decrease I guess
  5. Sammich

    Sammich Member

    This is asking for A LOT. A revamp requires intense scrutiny, a thorough dig-through of what makes each theme what it is. Let's start with listing the themes (at least, the broad ones - there's plenty of sub-themes that we probably won't have the time to address. evars).

    ...knockback, but only because I'm obsessed with it

    Those are kinda the primary options at the moment.

    SO! Which one do you want to talk about?!
    Woffleet likes this.
  6. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

  7. Sammich

    Sammich Member

    Right! This is a little more complicated, since we get to focus on the two races, but let's get to it.

    Moga and G'hern originally did two things - swarm, and swiss army. What I mean is they were cheap as dirt, and had a little lizard-rat-thing for every need. They were also downright silly, and it was just the best thing to end people with them. There was nothing quite like nickle-and-diming dwarves with a but of grinning idiots. Just awesome.

    But alas, things are no longer quite so rosy. One of the primary things that is missing is the uniqueness of each of the little buggers. They used to each have a clear identity, sort of like the weirdo gremlins in the second movie - they had a name, and by jove, that's what they did. They kinda stuck to that, and didn't really have to dig too deep for a reason to be on the field.
    Now, though... well, as G'hernbound got less restrictive, its cost increased, and the moga in general kept creeping up in price. I mean, these guys used to be able to drop for between 20-40 nora, and anything over that was unplayably expensive; he (it?) had to be flarking good to hit that 40 nora mark. Now, we have the Aviator. He's a flying moga attached to a pair of Icarus wings. He should be some sort of reckless nutjob swooping and crashing and stuff, right? Well... no, he improves range, gets faster if you... pay him, I guess?, maybe really likes being around voil (because shoehorning a moga into a deck with enough Overseer and Voil to make Bulwark work would be so easy)... he's a hodgepodge of reasonable things for a flying soldier to be doing... for 40 nora. And the Chef! Ha ha! I bet there's all sorts of shenanigans there, right? Like, I dunno, some dicey potion drops that could hurt or heal randomly? Maybe some weirdo set of both beneficial and harmful statuses? No, no, just healing and a disease bomb. Mmh. 52 nora.
    SO! I mean, personally, I'd love to get the old g'hernbound back (where they lost their abilities outside of Overseer, and were cheaper), but to focus on things that are more achievable, they really need their arrays of abilities looked at. I mean, the freakin' Trigger has Surge: G'hern? What the hell is that?! No, they need more streamlined sets that include powers more in tune with their oddball nature. New moga are just way too efficient and reasonable. It's a sad, sad state.

    As to the g'hern, or at least things with overseer. This was always the piece that made things click, both in-game and in-lore. But... they seem just a bit too... I dunno, mean. I mean, I know they devour their allies regularly, but it's sort of an absent-minded snacking. I feel like they should be involved in the whole "war" thing because they're giant bullies, not because they want to seize land of destroy the infidels. They're just big stupidheads bent of doing things that are funny... it's just that funny to them is popping off little boghopper heads.
    Even the flavor text supports the concept. The Isangoma, who's abilities all run the direction of "powerful ranged attacker", is shown as basically an idiot savant. He's the rain man of magic-throwing, and apparently, it pisses off the 'hoppers. That's great. They all need to be like that. And they're not far off! A little more attention to detail on them, and they could be that stupid, wandering, brutal, goofy force that they should be.

    Spell/Equip/Relics support... this is where things get dicey. Yeah, there's a lot of wonderful art within the faction (I love Extend Reach and Swimming Lessons - actually won a game once with the latter!), but it needs to go beyond Devour and G'hern Helm and Scarecrow. We'd need to come up with appropriately ridiculous effects, but there's a lot of space to play with in there.

    Anyway, that's my initial throw-down. Let's rumble.
    Woffleet and SPiEkY like this.
  8. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    On Moga and G’hern

    The red text is my solutions to the problems currently seen in G’hern.

    The main problem with g’hern and Moga currently is the G’hern. The moga work great. They're cheap each one is well focused towards a specific role and they are very lethal in numbers. The only real drawback to Moga are AOE/spell dmg, High def champions, And swarming/death benefit.

    If the Opponent kills the moga(Which is pretty easy to do) the g’hern are left with low damage and the opponent has won. The current counter to this is the totem but this is a major tempo hit.

    The problem with mass numbers of moga dying and then no way to rebuild army in time to save the game. The totem is good but it doesn’t do enough. I propose adding a new abillity soul summon moga axemen and death charged to multiple g’hern. This way if your army dies you can remake and army of less effective but useful champions. In addition revamping the moga den and adding moga war totem would help a lot.


    If the opponent kills the G’hern the moga are left with seriously low damage and it will require a tempo hit to play another G’hern back on the field. It is hard to one round a G’hern but constantly poking from range easily disables them.

    Simply adding consume moga or some form of bulwark moga to G’hern stops the threat of constant poking and will go a long way to keeping them around.

    G’hern should be designed to cover these weaknesses but they are lacking. To counter high def champions the G’hern rely on surge moga to pump up there damage. However if you have enough moga out to make your G’hern so powerful you’ve already won anyway.

    Removing sure moga from a lot of G’hern and redesign them to function like the general and taskmaster. They boost the moga around them and contain abilities that increase in power with numbers. Shred Deffence, Defender 3, shroud, etc would be a major help. Maybe add Commander Moga to the game?

    The only form of counter AOE/spell damage any G’hern provides is the general.

    Adding weaken spells to certain g’hern would be a major improvement

    Just my Opinion feel free to comment.
    Oldmaster likes this.
  9. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    To add on I think G'hernbound as a mechanic should be removed. It complicates the moga by adding a extra ability to everyone, Means that its stats lie(especially bad for new players), and goes against the lore that the g'hern make the moga more effective. If moga were given -3dmg and -1spd across the board i'm pretty sure they would be much cheaper.

    In addition I think it would be cool if certain moga could in some way, "call their tribe to help them." For example adding gift of scrying, scry, Camaraderie, Call to Arms, etc to more moga would be great.

    Another idea is to implement a ability that revealed 1 moga when it is deployed and concealed 1 moga when they are destroyed would be cool. Essentially the late game woes where all the moga die would no longer be so terrible and early game you can get the important moga out faster.
  10. Sammich

    Sammich Member

    Flipping g'hernbound on its head is interesting, since they removed the ability interaction from it... Drop all moga damage by three, speed by 1, then make g'hernbound "gets +3 damage and +1 speed when in range of a unit with Overseer" would probably make everything more intuitive.
  11. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    Why not Just make oveerseer moga give all oga within x spaces +3dmg and +1spd?
  12. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    In addition different types of Oversser can now be implemeted. Some ideas

    Iron Overseer: friendly moga within 5 spaces gain iron will and +1 def This effect stacks with other overseer abillities (4Nora)

    Brutal Overseer: friendly moga within 5 spaces gain fearless and +2 dmg This effect stacks with other overseer abillities (4Nora)

    Playful Overseer: friendly moga within 5 spaces gain and +1spd This effect stacks with other overseer abillities (4Nora)
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2015
    Oldmaster likes this.
  13. Sammich

    Sammich Member

    They'd have to stack with unique instances only, like one brutal but as many different ones as are available. That's seriously excellent.

    @Sokolov , whataya think?
    Woffleet likes this.
  14. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    Thanks man. What other overseers could they're be?
  15. Oldmaster

    Oldmaster I need me some PIE!

    Personally, I really like the idea of ghern simply adding to moga, especially the different types of overseer that Wolffleet mentioned.
    Woffleet likes this.
  16. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    thank you
  17. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    While I like the concept, it'd honestly be a tough sell creating a bunch of new abilities for existing units, especially since it's so closely resembles existing abilities such as Bastion of Will and Boost.

    However, given they are so similar to each other in theory, it's possible a new expansion could be Moga-centric and we can get a few in there (say 4 of them for 2 new G'hern and then give the other 2 to existing G'hern).
    Woffleet likes this.
  18. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    I'd love a moga expansion, lemme have it!
    SaintKiwi and Woffleet like this.
  19. Woffleet

    Woffleet I need me some PIE!

    Ok what are some realistic changes we can make for the theme then? Just so we don't waste are discussion
  20. Oldmaster

    Oldmaster I need me some PIE!

    Well, I don't know that we necessarily need the new different forms of Overseer during the theme revamp. Just change overseer to the new version that adds the stats, and you now have added design space for future content.
    Woffleet likes this.

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