Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Thailady, Sep 6, 2016.
SP has been this faction that has the most brutal, instant answers for everything in forms of equipment and spells. I think their bonus is flavorful and fitting, because it rewards for playing more champions and save nora to play the spell/equip/relic that will be an answer to whatever they're playing against. And dreamcrusher being an exception to that rule, because it's a champion, which is also fine imo.
I was EXPECTING you to say this. *Evil laughter*
Let us break into numbers: 40HP costs 30 nora, and after this number every 2 points point cost 1 nora. If we consider all ST champions to be over 40 HP(which isn't true but I'll give you that one), the ST bonus gives 10 HP for 5 nora
For SL Bonus, I'll break some numbers for you first:
DEF costs 2 or 3 nora depending on HP(IIRC the threshold is 50HP), but I'll kindly use 2 nora for this comparison.
Each rank of Tough Costs 5 nora.
Now, we know that SL bonus reduces damage from Attacks and champion-based AoEs(Auras, Cones, Bolts, Pings, Damage Shields, even the long forgotten Reflection); which means the only damage it does not reduce comes from Spells or DoT.
Now it's time to tag it a cost: if 2 DEF is 4 nora, and SL bonus is clearly much better than 2 def as not only it reduces more forms of damage but it also can't be reduced or ignored by normal means(LoL isn't a normal mean), we can't possibly say SL bonus costs the same as DEF right?
Of course we also can't say that it is nearly as good as Tough 2 which costs 10 nora, so what to do?
I'll tell you what we can do, we'll rank SL as close as possible to DEF for the sake of this comparison at 6 nora(3 for each point of damage reduction, as opposed to 1 DEF for 2 nora) and voilà: SL bonus is worth more than ST's. IF you really want to push it down they can be worth the same, but putting it so far away from Tough sounds a bit weird doesn't it?
EDIT: Now you may say that it doesn't apply in reality as HP takes all damage equally, while damage reduction depends on how much damage has been dealt.
For the sake of exemplification, let's say we have two 50 HP champions, one from ST and another from SL. The ST obviously becomes a 60 HP one, while SL's gains the bonus.
Now let's make a situation in which both take 10 damage consecutively, 6 times in a row:
The ST champion dies, the SL Champion takes 48 Damage and lives.
If you include auras or damage shields it gets even better for SL bonus.
My point is, the average damage dealt all around favors SL bonus, which already is numerically worth more than ST's(even though you must've realized I rounded down ST bonus' value when I considered all ST champios to have more than 40 base HP, and rounded up SL bonus' value when compared to DEF), and you'd need high damage to make SL bonus less efficient.
So yea, my opinion still is the same, feel free to remain oblivious.
wait, wait. Why are you making this complex analysis? Sok probably knows that stuff. Comparing those bonuses like that makes no sense.
But anyway, the reason why ST bonus is better because low level hp champs benefit from it greatly % wise. Summons etc. Because HP "counters" everything, loss of life , spells, auras yada yada yada. It's vastly underrated.
Did you see who I was replying to? Like I don't even understand what you're saying: "lets not discuss this because Sok knows it".
And do you really think that's not implied in the HP nora cost, or that these damage dealing effects(or LoL) you've mentioned don't take into account HP's cost? And if you want to talk about summons remember SL also makes them.
This thread was planned for IS people. there are those who do not exceed the SOE era
It's funny when older players come back and agree with my thought process
Just reaffirms that the soul that made pox what it was is still in purgatory
That said SP needs to lose whispers of the mind, you shouldn't be wasting attacks against sp it's a uphill battle anyway.
dragon homunculus OP
"SP" is not op. It has never been op. The only way "sp" is op is if a large number of its themes are op. They are not.
The only thing anyone credible appears to agree is op are Voil. That, obviously, does not mean an entire faction is op. That would be absolutely ridiculous.
Now, had you made a thread requesting Voil specifically be looked at, or been more amicable with your thread, you would get my sympathy. But you didn't. You just said "this entire faction is op".
Do you think the designers of this game are idiots? That they don't care about it? It should be pretty obvious that that isn't the case. Considering that, and that no more threads have been made about this *entire* faction being op then anyone else, saying so is utterly ridiculous.
You have criticisms? Fine. You want to ask about changes? Fine. But stating, as if it's a fact, that an *entire* faction is op is completely ridiculous- especially considering you apparently didn't talk to anyone about it before hand, as if you did you would know the only agreed upon op thing is Voil. Which is a theme; not a faction. By that logic if Leoss ended up being op then both ST and IS would too, at the same time.
(Don't bother responding though, as I just auto ignore anyone that does this at this point).
but muh valdac
Jezus christ this moral high horse bullshit in every Firking thread is getting super old really fast
You might as well save some time and put everyone on ignore with that attitude and sensitivity to things.
I'm not really on a high horse- I'm just sick and tired of people calling entire factions op. Anyone in there right mind knows that's insane to do.
The only reason it's in so many threads is because so many people do it- I wouldn't be so annoyed if it didn't happen so often.
IDK, I suppose I'll just leave until the new client/ps4 release. Assuming it does come with an increase in players, that should decrease the number of these claims- as with the increase in players the number would theoretically skyrocket to such high numbers that either something would be done about it (wouldn't be bans probably, maybe just Manding a section of the forums for this stuff so it can be avoided), or the players would realize how insane it is because so many different factions would be being called op every week that any more claims like that would just be lost in the sea of them people avoid.
Right now though, there are just enough to insanely stress out and annoy me, but not enough for anything to happen.
(Note that this is the only game I've seen have this problem- won't have any trouble if I go somewhere else till its fixed).
Whilst we may agree to some degree that people around here tend to communicate their points rather badly, if you stop being **** about semantics for a minute you'll see discussions being narrowed down to what they deem to be the actual problem.
Sometimes particulars from a faction benefit more from say, faction bonuses which lead people to address the faction as a whole, in this case, the Shattered Peaks which is Nora based can make anything better, so it's often brought up as part of the argument, often leading to faction wide statements. This may apply to other factions as well, without exceptions.
Either way, you seem to be a decent person, but this silliness you have been essentially preaching is rather superfluous and useless in discussions, the same thing you think of general statements. If you want that to change then provide the environment for it to change, if not, let things follow their natural course.
Edit: @nal is censored, how surprising.
Wait so I can't say analogy?My life is ruined.
Anyway, I guess we should just hope the patch is any soon so we can see the good ol' tier dance.
Nah, you can bypass the filter sometimes by changing the word enough. It's kind of a shitty filter, to be honest.
Yea I forgot to check after I posted. ADD told me to go make some juice.
IS op pls nerf.
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