Newest Oxfam study: The top 8 people.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ohmin, Jan 16, 2017.

  1. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    The history of the world is full up with totalitarians preaching equity. And to achieve this utopian ideal, a few 100K to a few dozen million gots to die. Le sigh.

    Stalin. And Mao. And Hitler. Young Turks. And Pol Pot. And... It is a mystery to me why people put such fanatical faith in evil governments. Uber cult action.
  2. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    yea yea couple 100k dying is bad, but gerben is pointing out that this time we need only kill 8
  3. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!


    Are you trying to be funny?

    Fascists use violence to achieve political goals. So do communists. Both love huge gvt. Both promise they have all the answers. As do cults. History be cyclical.
  4. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    That was a clear attempt at poor comedy yes. I was just echoing Gerbens post, since he was somewhat jesting and you seemed to take it seriously. I figured that if I pressed the silly once more it woulda been more obvious that Gerben was being silly.

    For all his flaws, I doubt Gerben was advocating for the murder of these people.
  5. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Oh no I am serious, it is better to kill 8 in an attempt to right the wrongs of the world than to never try again because it failed before.
    (I am not fully serious) and I did write to @Ohmin to prove it can be done without violence.
  6. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Mucho appreciate the clarification.
  7. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Alas, as we had learned to our dismay, the internet and text-based communication does not work like that.

    All you need to do is seize their assets and redistribute them. Killing them is not at all necessary, you just need an excuse to take away their belongings. Whether it be charges of fraud or other criminal activity, new anti-trust laws, new taxes, or extra-legal means such as theft (possibly required for holdings in nations unlikely to co-operate or in the case of them using their assets to emigrate from the state(s) trying legal methods), killing them isn't required to affect a reduction in an individual's wealth. Note that I'm not necessarily condoning any of these actions either or (sorry BP) Communism.

    Another means could be to embargo them and where necessary to freeze their assets. Essentially make it so they can't leverage their assets at all and their effective net worth becomes little to nothing... though again that would likely require the co-operation of pretty much all the nations and territories, which is unlikely.

    Please note also that killing them isn't really going to be that quick either. As people with lots of assets (and many of them [all of them? I hadn't checked] having family) they likely have trusts and other means to keep their money held so it wouldn't be that easy to "liberate" their assets even if they died.

    Of course, the long-term, and likely most effective solution (for a couple reasons, including preventing others from gaining the same position eventually) would be revised regulations, treaties, and economic reforms to make it easier for the impoverished to be able to gain (meaningful, not just off-set by inflation) wealth and assets of their own. In essence, to lift up the bottom 3.6B while not further expanding the inequality of the top 8.

    But that's difficult and slow... but on the plus side you get to make the world a better place in the mean time.
    NevrGonaGivUup and SPiEkY like this.
  8. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    IMO, the literal Elfstones of Shannara are MUCH more likely to be found--and used against Demons--than for some type of communist/anarchist/minarchist/objectivist movement to rise up and create utopia for mankind. Stealing is immoral, even if couched in a bunch of fancy words with a futuristic font on gold-laced parchment.
  9. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Ok so I read what @Ohmin wrote and maybe we have to kill a few hundred people, it will still be way easier then his alternatives.

    Is it? what if I have to steal food to survive?

    what if I steal a loaf of bread to survive?
    what if I steal that really expensive caviar and a thousand (money) worth bottle of wine to survive?
  10. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    only if you aren't rich

    Then, if you don't pay your workers, its "smart business"
    Geressen likes this.
  11. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    Yeah it would seem so...

    so to sum it up:

    Stealing is immoral, unless done from a position of power and wealth.
    Murder of innocents is immoral unless sanctioned by the american public, their police force, and the goverments they ellect.
    BurnPyro likes this.
  12. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    sounds about right
  13. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    I think you're under-estimating how difficult "simply" killing people and taking their things really is. (And I still think that going after their assets is the easier and more direct way.)

    More importantly it doesn't take apart the foundation of why the inequality exists in the first place. Just because something is "easier" to do one way doesn't mean you'll really solve the root problem without going through the "difficult" path.

    The thing is, we aren't really talking about merely being rich here. It's beyond that I think.
  14. BurnPyro

    BurnPyro Forum Royalty

    Dunno, depending on the scenario civilians have no chance vs a trained army. Or exploding projectiles.

    I mean obviously somehow removing them isnt a solution. Making them stop dodging taxes however..
    Ohmin likes this.
  15. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    My people have a long and proud tradition of banditry and piracy.
    Look your insistence on me needing to kill more and more people is starting to become an issue and we already discussed how I feel is the easiest way to deal with issues.
    NevrGonaGivUup likes this.
  16. Ohmin

    Ohmin Forum Royalty

    Or swarms of autonomous "micro-drones" dropped from high altitude fighter jets.

    Heh. I was looking some things up for the Energy thread Sok posted, and I came across this lovely image:

  17. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Stealing is immoral. Murder is immoral. Very rarely an act that is usually immoral is actually the proper one to take. If someone tries to kill me, and I kill them first it is self defense. If someone tries to steal my car, and I use a bit o' violence to stop them it is justified. I need my car to work. I need work to feed my fam. Not everything needs to be looked at through the lens of class warfare. The world is full of evil politicians. Not sure why you chaps keep pretending all naughty political types live in America. Also, I thought we were blaming Russia for most world problems. Or is that so last week now that Buzzfeed and CNN got caught pushing #FakeNews?
  18. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi


    The fact that bad people say X, Y, or Z doesn't make X, Y or Z bad or false by definition.

    This is a logical fallacy.
    BurnPyro likes this.
  19. Geressen

    Geressen Forum Royalty

    lol, no it isn't. always so eager to jump to violence.

    No, America is responsible for the problems and Russia just wants to be more powerfull, and since the US elected an idiot and Putin is clever Bane Shift is ****ed yo.
    BurnPyro likes this.
  20. DarkJello

    DarkJello I need me some PIE!

    Agree that those preaching equity are NOT always evil. It is immoral/evil to preach violence by the state or God or both in the "noble" pursuit of equity.

    GW Bush and Obama and Hillary proved to be warmongers. Many leaders in Europe are warmongers too. They are just starting to reap the whirlwind now.

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