Let's Look at Liches

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by TeaScholar, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Good to See this thread again… I'll take another read through it. Totally forgot about frightful aura ^_^
    TeaScholar likes this.
  2. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    still think liches should be splashable in other themes (either individually or as a module) rather than its own theme ala magelord. would be fun if different liches had varying commander abilities.
    TeaScholar, D4rkSteel and Netherzen like this.
  3. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    @Ragic Hey buddy. I agree, and you helped us get to the discussion about doing so.

    I didn't agree with you earlier in the thread, however, in that we would do this by leaving the liches alone, or something along those lines.
    Indeed commander abilities would be nice, but let's not rule out other abilities like frightful aura, or battlemaster.

    @D4rkSteel Keep in mind that evil aura is a mostly sandbag ability that will always raise the cost, even if you think it
    'looks cool', it's not really beneficial. It's the same reason boon of the undead must change- it adds too much cost on its own.
    Obviously logistics speed is cheaper than +1 speed, same with range and life siphon. You've got to stay true to what you would like to see, but keep in mind how it reflects in nora cost according to the pox ability-cost engine.
  4. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Liches need something to make them less of a lich glass cannon
  5. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    It would be interesting if there were some kind of Lich ability, that boosted other undead races, but debilitated other liches in the given area.

    So if there's a lich, surrounded by skellies, it should work together. But if there's two liches in that area, each lich should have some kind of debuff in response. Almost as if to say "leave this battalion to me! I am a lich! I am complete! I am powerful enough! Watch me work, peasant"
  6. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    we need to make a decision in this patch if possible cause i don't want to have to wait for anther patch after ronin before liches become playable
    we'll never know if there might be a new lich released in ronin but it be pointless if liches are still unplayable
  7. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Give them frightful aura and pawn. Lose most other things.
  8. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

  9. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Do you want me to do your homework as well?

    Shall I fetch you something else while I'm at it?

    Whether it's in the next patch or not, slow down.

    Read the earlier pages of this thread. Highly suggested.
  10. D4rkSteel

    D4rkSteel I need me some PIE!

    If evil aura raises the cost, drop it. It's not useful at all but only looks cool. Thought it might give something unique to the lich race other than Race: Lich...
  11. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Yeah evil aura looks hella cool, maybe we can ask gedden to remove it and keep the animation, that abilitie really needs to go out, it only seems usefoul on toll-taker.
    I used to heal Serkan with the illusions of the shade striker, they were all hidden in DMZ and prevent the melee tank to reach serky, but even tho, i still think it needs to go out.
  12. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Serkan is so evil, he don't need no aura. Just the display effect.
  13. D4rkSteel

    D4rkSteel I need me some PIE!

    All liches should have the evil aura just as a visual effect.
  14. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Fatbutt anthropuumancer don't.
  15. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    Evil aura is cool though, I never have to worry about having a random perseverance counter. Worship lich is a really sweet lich race boost. I would like to see more of that and more 60ish nora champs for lich meat. 70 is to much.
  16. Leadrz

    Leadrz I need me some PIE!

    fun fact evil aura work son summons and illusions without killing them... (if still hasnt changed)
  17. Daerthalus

    Daerthalus Devotee of the Blood Owl

    @TeaScholar Here is the recosted version of Serkan Logistics

    Rune Name: Serkan
    Faction: FW
    Race: Undead, Lich Class:
    Nora Cost: 101 (Currently costed for 5-7 range)

    Champion Stats
    10, SPD: 6, RNG: 5-7, DEF: 2, HP: 52

    Champion Abilities
    Attack: Electricity
    Boon of the Undead
    Logistics: Life Siphon
    Logistics: Speed
    Logistics: Range
    Logistics: Flanking

    Upgrade Path 1
    Defensive Strike (Base)
    Frightful Aura 3 (-6)
    Descration Zone 3 (-6)

    Upgrade Path 2
    Debilitate (Base)
    Portal (-7)
    Teleport 1 (-5)

    I couldn't figure out the cost reduction for lowering him to 4-5 range, so at the moment he is @ 5-7. Obviously we do not want to him to end u with 5-9 range so if someone knows the cost formula for 5-7 ---> 4-5 please let me know, and we can reduce his cost accordingly.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  18. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    That would be lovely, and you already responded to my initial thought. Indeed, we should find out what his cost would be at with 4-5 starting range.


    He doesn't necessarily NEED flanking. Is frost cone cheaper than logistics: flanking, by any chance? Just curious.
    I also feel like desecration zone should be base, because most times that Serkan dies, it's by some kind of spell. So typically most players will run him with DZ3.
    Debilitate is also a particular ability I was never sold on. I feel like there's a better option for Serkan.
    But I guess at the same time, there has to be some give and take, and he can't be over-efficient or everyone will instant QQ.
    But I see all of these changes as a step in the right direction, and that includes whatever Yobanchi has in mind for Serkan. He might already be going for something along those lines... @yobanchi ?
  19. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Also, what if anthropomancer kept divine favor 3, lost expedite and most of his stats (5 damage, 5 speed, 39 hp), and gained invigorate? Or that ability that baby slag has that pisses off other slags when it's attacked?
    My logic is that with worse stats and loss of sandbag abilities like expedite, we can give liches abilities that are simply supportive and possibly flavorful. That's the goal.
    Liches themselves aren't renowned for being personally tough, or dangerous. It's the armies they raise that do that. And those armies treat those liches like a slag army treats a baby slag. They protect it with their lives.
  20. XFurionsX

    XFurionsX I need me some PIE!

    Man i don't know, i don't feel very "protective" regarding the anthropomancer, i think he is just a bag so other liches kick'em, maybe invigorate, or he can have relocate relics for the pots, or something that can protect/serve liches, but i don't think serkan would get pissed for anthropomancer to die.

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