Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Gnomes, Nov 30, 2017.
So nep ad i had a tiny disagreement. what does the crowd think?
<3 still love you nep <3
@TinyDragon @nepyonisdead @hermaios
I watched a few of Tiny's games today where he played KF and I think he lost them all (of the ones I watched). I was hoping to learn something from those games!
So what you may have learned (if you did not know already), is KF is discriminated by devs. Its one obvious reason why its difficult to win by KF. BUT FAE is way too powerfull with all buffs if u ask me.
One obvious way devs did it is by them countering the faction bonus by how they build KF Champs (minimize movability so faction bonus is nullified, giving minimum benefit in terms of nora/HP) and also how they give other factions more powerfull speed/ap-spells/relics/equipments.
Have you seen my Declare Hunted deck? It is full of ZOOM, ZOOM, ZIP, BIFF, BAM, and POW!
Edit: Anyway, I'm absolutely positive Tiny's KF deck can smash face. I just didn't witness it in the games I watched today.
for the sake of clarification the KF bg, its KF rangers which includes vashal mirror blades. @Tweek516 its the bg u came up with before tiny overtook baller do you think it tops ST/SP meta and every other bg or no. Ill take ur word for it cuz i know u arent biased and u know what u are tlaking about <3
I believe it can go toe to toe. It depends on skills, draws and so on. Would say ST/SP is easier to master so for a newer player it would be stronger.
Hmm. Off the top of my head, I'd say the main difference between them is that the KF ranger bg wants to set up and do its thing, whereas the ST/SP is more based around denying the opponent's game strategy, and then overcoming them with general efficiency. The KF ranger bg has more counters to it but, when it gets set up correctly, is probably more powerful than the ST/SP bg.
Basically the ST/SP is designed to have a solid match up against everything, very few weaknesses, but sacrifices some synergy and power to do this. The ranger bg has more raw strength, but has a couple counters and some bad match ups.
I don't think I've played enough recently to give them tier numbers, but overall I'd say that the split bg should probably be rated higher - on average it has better match ups. That said, I don't think there's much in it. In terms of 1 Vs the other, I think it can be a fairly balanced match up, but that it hinges hugely on the rune reveal order of the ST/SP bg.
You realise that the KF bonus is probably worth more on champions with low speed than high speed right?
I do understand his intentions though. However, it's been said that 8 speed is actually too much for the map sizes, @polltroy , and I do agree with that.
I think tiny uses 1st tier bgs, and st / sp combos are probably God tier, as well as ff st bgs. I think that tiny s bgs are troll, but also very strong. @Tweek516 understands it. I think kalasle ff tier list is kind of accurate in that FW bgs are tier 1 at best, but probably closer to 1.25 or 1.5.. im paraphrasing there. So tiny bg probably is better overall for farming 2nd rate players like me, but not against try harders.
Well if it was agreed that 8 speed is too much, WHY there are so so many champs that have 8 or 9 speed "movement" in so many factions except KF. Just look at all the champs with Teleport 1-3 + speed 7-5, or the ones with leap 3 and speed 7... etc etc.
Leap 3 + speed 7+ (=8-mover): 105 acc to Poxlist. And of those in KF: 0
Teleport 1 + speed 7+ (=8-mover): 27 acc to Poxlist. And of those in KF: 0
Teleport 2 + speed 6+ (=8-mover): 56 acc to Poxlist. And of those in KF: 0
Teleport 3 + speed 5+ (=8-mover): 6 acc to Poxlist. And of those in KF: 0
9-movers: 8. and of those in KF: 0
At Split KF has one (1!!!) 8-mover.
thats why kf overperformes in ff and underperformers in split. but saying kf is slow is wrong. as tweek said, is better to pass from spd 5 to 6 than 8 to 9
Its not about your feeling!!! Its about how devs calculate Nora cost for champs!!! From 5 to 6 maybe is worth 6 Nora and from 8 to 9 is worth 20. Just an example but that's how champ cost works. And that's why kf don't get use of their bonus properly if all champs are made slow on purpose.
And the fact that kf has significantly less high-speeders than other factions is also thematically so so wrong. And I watched a few of Tinys KF games... He plays KF like they are some slow dwarfs. Holding back from mid fonts and then lure enemy close to him and then in a powerturn try to kill one or two enemy champs. Not pushing in beginning but slow build up and then use initiative and different abilities to one round someone who tried to come to close. This is how IS was supposed to be played back in the days when they had best defence and viable non-font Nora gen!!!
This is incredibly incorrect
building up is not wrong and is not a prerogative of a single faction (IS or SL for example)
put your mind at peace, just try to get better with your positioning instead of only rushing and rely on few champs ( in I guess 8 matches against me you made always the same exact things and you lost 7 of them agains a build up with no power turn bg)
he plays the game as its supposed to be. rangers its a bg where you build a solid army. don't search background justification, i can justify any weird stuff with fantasy background.
Its not how KF was a few years ago anyway. And I dont like this SLOW BUILD UP theme of KF. I see thats how KF is played now. Thats not how KF was played in the past...
thats how RANGERS are played. also except from garus, no KF bg actually rushes that much. FAE are midgame based, because they build up with cc and mobility (very thematic btw). elves / illusions are very mobile but dont rush. magic amp is balanced and can do everything. Rangers are a bit more "phalanxy" so they tend to be played more defensively. whats the problem with that? even UD has some more midgame/not rush options available, why KF or others shouldnt?
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