Improving Vampires

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by themacca, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    I do wonder, why no Griefbearer's Fountain/s? They add damage, and can give some quick healing. In Vampyres it seems to me that it would be really good.

    There's also a bunch of different equips that would be good,
    Hekation Blood Draught
    Mail of Barbs
    Shredding Bracelet
    Crown of Corruption
    Shield of Darkness
    Ghost Pendant (if you REALLY want to up survive-ability)
    Enervating Collar (more durable in melee, and gives spot dispel)

    Making room for stuff is of course the problem.

    It should also be noted that you can make a fairly potent DMZ Vampyre module, as they do have some of the better DMZ related runes (Count, Banshee, Collector).
     
  2. Gnomes

    Gnomes Forum Royalty

    The reason i do not play most of those equips is because i am running the Life siphon module of Vampire and not the bleed version, i have thought of putting in a fountain though, i do like it.

    i like to stay in theme, so if im playing life siphon, then that means thats all im playing. all the equips oyu mentioned are for bleed more or less, shield of darkness and pendant are ok includes too though. but i feel my vams are pretty pricey, and putting even moer nora into them by adding a equip i dont like usually.
     
    SireofSuns likes this.
  3. davre

    davre The Benevolent Technofascist

    I really like the idea of an ability that adds a little spice to the blood balls. Could be attached to a champion or to a relic. Something light like a 2 turn curse for enemies and a 3 turn buff for friendlies (+1 speed +1 damage, duration increases by 1 every time you pick one up but no stacking otherwise).

    e:: probably attached to pure FW not /UD split because UD bleed is strong enough already, conversely make the ability vampyre(p.s. I hate that y) vs. non-vampyre instead of friendly/enemy.
     
    OriginalG1 likes this.
  4. Zorack

    Zorack I need me some PIE!

    Honestly, all they have to do is unnerf Vampyre art back to this.

    [​IMG]
     
    voodoov, Qucas, Tweek516 and 2 others like this.
  5. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    Why DID they nerf Vampy's art? Was it too "inappropriate" back then? I mean, just go look at some of the art we have now...
     
  6. OriginalG1

    OriginalG1 I need me some PIE!

    a LE vampyre with a new minion ability and original(g) art? Minion ability, similar to the Marauder ability on Ash, but would deploy 2x lesser vampires. (or vampire followers)
     
  7. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    No.
     
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  8. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    To be fair, I don't think the FW bonus synergizes well with liches either, I mean they have eternal life and are revived after use. I still hold true that FW bonus should be changed. A amall bit of nora bonus on globes would be a nice start, even if it was only +1 or 2 per globe. I know thats similar to their old bonus, but right now, I find their lack of a bonus frustrating. It certainly isn't a bonus which can be used consistently.
     
  9. Orubus

    Orubus Devotee of the Blood Owl

    Macca u sure do get around, you play a lot of different bgs, proud of you
     
  10. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Pretty sure we don't have that art anymore - lots of stuff got lost in between all the moves of the game :(
     
    SireofSuns likes this.
  11. Streea

    Streea New Member

    As far as Vampires go, it seems the only viable theme is a FW/UD split. I use to use only Vampires back in 2013ish when the Bloodbinder Count and Elder Bloodbinder were released. They played well with various other vampire champions and worked wonders in 2v2. Sure it was just a life siphon drain deck, but when the hammer came down; the nail was hammered into the coffin so hard it split and butchered any hope of a FF FW Vampire set up. To make it thematically to any degree, the runes themselves need to be reworked into a specific theme. I've been going through the runes and noting them all and seeing what syncs best with what, but with some of the nerfs from this winters patch alone it has made it difficult to find any real solution outside of making a couple of spells specific for a Vampire deck, as well as perhaps another relic or two and maybe even a unique equip. I did pitch some ideas at Sok regarding them but nothing was really settled. Once I'm done going through all of the Vampire related runes (I'm only doing FW runes because it is our broken theme, UD just gets to benefit), I'll post the list as well and potentially good decent upgrades for them and some unique spells/relics/equips that will hopefully get thought over and perhaps, we may finally have an actual true Vampire theme.
     
  12. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    I am a bit promiscuous :oops:
     
  13. Streea

    Streea New Member

  14. Bondman007

    Bondman007 I need me some PIE!

    I think they need more "traditional" vampire abilities. Vampires need to have some "cool" factor to play them instead of just neat art. I would recommend the following:
    Possession/charm: The historically stronger vampires could charm/possess with their gaze. In other versions they were able to charm with their guile. I would spread this around the theme.
    Spawns: In some settings, vampires would have the ability to create vampire spawn. I think they should have a swarm ability around this. An example of a vampire swarm could be a couple of different choices...a generic spawn or a regrown spawn based off the dead champ.

    Vampire Spawn (Generic): When this champion kills a champion with a basic attack, a Vampire Spawn with no upgrades is created in that space.
    Dam: 10
    Def:1
    Rng: 1
    HP: 15
    Attack: Physical
    Pounce
    Greater Vampirism (as created by themacca above or life siphon)

    OR

    Vampire Spawn (regrown from base champ): When this champion kills a champion with a basic attack, a spawn of that champion is created in that space.
    This ability is similar to the coven claw's essence claw ability but the spawn also has short lived 1.

    @themacca is certainly correct that their stats are to low to compete. If the bleed theme was a tad stronger and it was splashed around more on the vamps then they might be a theme.
    Also, I think the vampire "lords" should have the ability to transform into a bat swarm identical to the SP champ in all ways including the swarm ability.

    Just my $0.02
     
  15. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    Tormented
    Vengeful
    Spontaneous Regeneration
    Calcify
    Leech Vitality
    Devourable
    Consume
    Adaptive
    Ravish
    Vitality: X
    Gift: X
    Sabotage: X

    Just some abilities I think Vampyres could use. In the case of Themes/runes that see no play I think there should be a stronger push to put abilities that enable other runes rather than some kind of rework to get that one rune to see play within the theme. Ravish would make a lot of sense on a Vampyre and at the same time Ravish is a great ability to use after Spare Parts has been cast. It's a stretch but the same can be said for Consume, it synergizes with Spare Parts but requires more control of the map.

    Abilities like Spontaneous Regeneration should also be put on runes that may not see play but could if they just lasted one more turn longer, honestly that's what I thought Spontaneous Regeneration, One with Nora, Defensive Turtle etc were supposed to accomplish but I don't see runes receiving Evasive or Reflexes left and right to scale up their survivability. Vampyres will most likely receive something similar to Fairy Flight where their healing and other abilities scale up the lower HP they have.

    Born from Blood: After this unit takes 12 dmg it gains Life Siphon, if it already has Life Siphon it gains bleed. If it already has Bleed a Blood Ball is spawned adjacent to this unit. When this Champion is at less than 20% HP or would be destroyed it Vampyric Heals for the overkill dmg and collects all Blood Balls within 2 spaces. This may trigger once every 3 turns.
     
  16. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Vampires will never be well balanced in FW, since there is no way to account properly for a bonus which will NEVER work with a theme which is meant to stay alive at all times.

    The best you can do is use mobilization, unholy tomb, and doom, chopping blocks to create stall situations, in which you somehow create an advantage. Again, the bonus will be guaranteed to have 0 effect with this theme.

    If vampires are to be balanced at all for FW, they need a low Nora cost suicide/sabotage unit which can be spammed, and can cause bleeding/blood magic. Like a 20-30 Nora bat, deck limit 3 or 4, or some kind of preordained.
     
  17. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Leave design to the designers.
     
  18. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    we've already established you don't have a full understanding of all the benefits of the FW bonus. you really don't need to go through old posts to try and re-iterate your point.
     
  19. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Aren't you 1300~ elo still?
     
  20. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    Macca doesn't really play anymore, but is a pretty strong player with a good understanding of how FW works.

    And a players skill doesn't always reflect his ability of the game. Otherwise kalasle would be rank 1.

    That said, I think you're being too hard to dice. He's a new player with some new ideas that might be worth listening to. A breath of fresh air in a factions strats is never a bad thing.
     

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