How do I beat st?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Runegod, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Lash Down and Elven Bard can get you 6 AP across the entire board. :p

    As far as I recall FS has the highest amount of invigorate champs - they also have a lot of units that relocate allies, enemies and/or give/save AP as well as good AP generating spells. Whether or not it's efficient is a different matter.
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  2. guokamoli54

    guokamoli54 I need me some PIE!

    Ya that makes sense i guess my thought was something like mobi from fw so i was confused lol
     
  3. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    I agree that Frost theme and Elementals are among the best in the game right now, but I don't think they're that far ahead of some battlegroups from other factions(like Firk for example); I can't say, however, that I'm unbiased. I can at least help you with pointing some of ST's weak spots.

    First of all we have equipment. ST doesn't have an equipment removal option aside from Shatter on champions and Rebound, which very few people actually run. That's one reason why frost BGs are good, since they have both Arcadon and Frostfall Icewisp as options. Other than that we have just yetis and beasts, but Snow Lerper isn't a great option, despite being the only one. Lonx have Facilitator, Yetis have Scout and that's it, if I'm not wrong( which I might be) that's all of ST's equipment removal. Ferrens have no equipment removal, and unless you're running a Snow lerper in a Flying BG, it won't have it either.

    Second there's Super Champions. ST is great at making them(only loses to IS), but countering them is very hard for most ST BGs. Frost's sheer amount of AoE's MAY be an exception depending on how the BG is built, but a it's not uncommon for an ST player to suffer against things like tough, high defense and lots of healing - ST has no counter to any kind of healing. You can find a couple sources of Strike and Sunder like Keeneye Crown, Lonx Striker and Chilling Scale, but they're normally limited to on rune per deck. Elusive,Dodge, Block, Nohkan Do ,Evasive and Reflexes rarely work unless you opponent doesn't have a Halberd of J'thir at hand, which is a very heavy counter to those abilities. Ultimately a ST player will Gale Force an enemy super champion to try killing it, but it can be countered by physical resistance/immunity/rock eater, Unstoppable, and obviously good positioning (although sometimes no amount of good placement will save you from a well planned Gale sandwich).

    On third place there's detection, which might not be a huge weakness but can be exploited. ST does have a few global damage spells and large AoE abilities like Frostbite, Hypothermia(good old Black Ice) or Frostfall Dragon's Absolute Zero - which aren't commonly used - that reveal champions that won't resist their damage via Tough or Combat Awareness 2(Garin for Example). As for Detection itself, ST only has a handful of viable champions with the ability, but they're sparse and as such ST still can suffer against good players running stealth. Yetis are probably the theme that best detects champions in the game through Abominable(which can be beaten by good positioning but that's not easy to pull off).

    I probably forgot something, but this is a good start. I'd post on how to deal with ST's strong points too, but that would make the post gigantic. Might leave it for later if it's needed. Sorry for any typo. Feel free to disagree. Hope someone reads.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  4. guokamoli54

    guokamoli54 I need me some PIE!

    I think its nuts how efficient Jakei extinguisher is that guy is nuts in my frost bg
     
  5. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    Yeah, he's great because he's got a pretty barebones design that keeps his cost down and there's a lot of background synergies that make him even better. For instance, the higher the HP, the more useful abilities like Regeneration or Acolyte become(since the unit is less likely to be one-rounded). The ST bonus and his fair base HP make that ability far better than it would be on a 30-40 HP unit. Furthermore, very few champs have consistent ways to take advantage of the Acolyte procs after the user's turn, something that is more easily achieved by frost and fire. Most acolytes rely on basic attacks, spells, abilities and outside sources controlled by the player in order to get to the level of sustain that Regeneration provides, but under the right circumstances, frost can set up conditions to double that to 12 per round. Granted, it is not guaranteed and very specific, sometimes avoidable conditions are the ones that allow Acolyte to surpass Regeneration 3. While I would consider this to be a plus, this also technically makes Extinguisher weaker to Decay from FW if the opponents choose to proc Acolyte more times during their turn.
     
  6. Lushiris

    Lushiris I need me some PIE!

    Extinguisher is good, but he's only really good against range 1 champions, and for dealing frost damage in case you have a good amount of Amplify Frost out. For tanking in general, abilities like Void/Oblivion Shield, evasive/reflexes and so on are objectively better. Extinguisher had his golden age back when Acolyte didn't have a limit on its triggers.
     

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