FW (Meta) Support Champs Tier List

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by kalasle, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Screw it, another tier list. This one is for FW support champs (a notably shorter list). I'll start by addressing the same two questions as the other thread. NOTE: This one is much more a work in progress, both because I am slightly less certain how to class some champions, and because I have less experience running a lot of supports. I am in the process of gathering more data -- and may just double-place champions to represent their functionality in multiple roles (and then put links to the other lists noting they are elsewhere?)

    First, what is a "support"? A support is any champion that has a primary mission other than combat, as suggested by its abilities and stats. As such, supports can rarely deal or take much damage themselves, but may increase allied damage, mitigate enemy damage, or may do something else useful like remove equipment, or even create whole other champions.

    And second, here are the tiers (they assume junk/goodstuff, and can shift depending on themes):
    • Tier 1 -- This champion is excellent. It is a safe 1x include in any generic deck -- a great default choice. If a tier 1 support doesn't make it in a deck, it's because that slot is already filled with another tier 1 beater or the deck already has enough supports. May be a 2x include.
    • Tier 1.5 -- This champ is strong and viable. In lieu of owning a tier 1 champ, a tier 1.5 can substitute admirably. It may be slightly weaker than another option, or may not be the best choice for the meta-game or for some decks, but these are competitive. Some may in fact be more appropriate than a tier 1 beater, if the t1.5 champion provides something that a deck specifically needs. Will likely never be more than a 1x include.
    • Tier 2 -- This champ is alright. One or more notable weaknesses. A deck may suffer slightly in competition if it fields some tier 2 supports. These champions may be exceptional at something, but should generally have a tier 1 champion played in their place unless there is a good and particular reason otherwise. Meta-game shifts may move these champs up to a functional tier 1.5.
    • Tier 3+ -- This champ is not good. It is labeled a support because that is all it does: provide emotional support. These are the chubby adults at football games who can't participate but can pretend they contribute something by dressing up in their team's colors. Tier 3+ supports do that but for Pox. Probably don't run these champions.

    Tier 1

    Bone Circle Archmage // __, U2: Augment Creation

    Cleric of Unrest

    Death Harvester // U1: Detection 3, __

    Inkblight Witch // U1: Shroud, __

    Gravewatcher // U1: Easy Target, U2: Death Nova Disease


    Tier 1.5

    Dark Apprentice // __, U2: Favor

    Maleficia

    Nether Wraith

    Soul Siren // __, U2: Pull

    Stitched Librarian

    Toll-Taker

    Wretched Witch

    Zombie Rotwrapper


    Tier 2

    Death Guard // U1: Knockback 3, U2: Death Nova: Disease 1

    Dusk Creeper // U1: Shroud, U2: Stat Bonus SPD

    Elsari Culler

    Fleshweaver Witch

    Mysian Necromancer

    Necromancer

    Phantasmal Creeper // __, U2: Hex

    Soul Collector

    Stitched First

    Stitched Hexer

    Stitched Seamstress

    Stitched Suppressor


    Tier 3+

    Disturbed Spirit// __, U2: Haunt 2

    Haunting Spirit

    Mindthief Creeper // U1: Reflection 1, U2: Initiative 1

    Undead Magister // U1: Spellswallower, U2: Resist Magical 1



    Unsure -- This category refers to things that can or might be supports, but I really wasn't sure. Better to have them noted for later discussion. If you have opinions on the incluse or exclusion of any champ from the support list, please let me know.

    Arroyo Echo
    Bonewing
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
    Tweek516 likes this.
  2. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Cleric of unrest is t1 for lunches imo.

    Stitched Liberian is good in split themes, not sure ff.


    After playing FW- FS split, I can confirm that FW sucks ass (minus elder vampye decks), mainly due to a lack of bonus. Their champion runes are really one of the better parts of the clan in all honesty. But they still can feel outclassed compared to ST and others
     
  3. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I've tried to make these meta tier lists -- looking at runes outside of particular themes, and not noting or factoring in their in-theme power. This is one reason that a lot of the spell/relic/equip runes that have specific theme interactions fall lower on the tier list than some people might expect: I'm evaluating them solely based on their performance in junk/goodstuff decks. I'd rather leave in-theme tier to respective theme tier lists, such as your skeletons one.

    I think it's good enough to justify tier 2, which isn't saying much. You're looking at, potentially, Shatter, Detection, and the Nora Hex deal all on one champ, and although those aren't high-priority pieces of utility right now, I think it justifies better than ass-tier.
     
  4. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Run portal. Use as an early deploy, be aggressive towards a side font, force a reaction then portal to support / contest different side. Shatter not as valuable.
     
  5. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Yes, Portal is also a thing you can run, and it's what I would take if I had Librarian in a deck, because it works better with the Nora Hex pieces. My point was that the champ has a good clutch of utility however you slice it.
     
  6. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    you are missing bone mason. I use him as a replacement for TOH in skeletons. He can buff statue, and also has good base movement with exertion. Mason 3, the attack shrine heal lvl1. He could be pretty decent I'd think, 12 hp CD 3 isn't bad is it?

    I don't really like grave watcher or death harvester. I find I never have the time to use death harvested, and quite frankly gravetend sucks. I don't use expensive units in my deck for exhume to really be valuable to me. It's fair if you use coragh, but the I'd rather deploy 2 units compared to coragh in a turn... not that I think coragh is bad, I just think the combo is not consistent enough

    Malefice damage low 4 a beater, but maybe at least move her a t up in support for cheap utility

    Toll taker and tariff sucks. I want to say there is a better option to abuse enemy deaths, id guess aspect. I use him in skeletons for his corruption attack, but recently I just prefer a sac altar and lean on xulous more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  7. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Yeah, I noticed you running it a few days ago. I dunno, I could see it. He doesn't generate near as much healing as ToH, though, which is the main problem if you expect to use Elsari Bazaar. I'll give him a whirl with a couple builds, I guess. What do you mean about him buffing Statue? You mean in response to Seism?

    I think a 35 nora reanimate can be worth it even on an average champ, so long as you don't get crunched on tempo. Let say you play it on a fairly average beater, like a Corpse Golem. You're still getting a 20 nora swing on something as middling as that. The big help, though, comes from Death Harvester: you get the extra nora back from the champion's second death, and nora from the death of the Gravewatcher. On even a Corpse Golem, that means you're paying, round trip 25 nora for the second Corpse Golem, which is better than half price. Obviously the numbers get better and better the higher the cost the champion; Gravewatcher drops to 23 nora if you target a champ that costs greater than 60. Which brings me to...

    I make the time. I'll gladly give up an opportunity to apply pressure in the early or middle game if it means fielding Harvester. Again, if you aren't going to literally lose the game in the next couple rounds based on the tempo, the bird is good.

    As for Gravetend, yes, it's a niche ability. I don't think it's especially good either. I focus on it in Statue decks, but other than that ignore it -- just icing.

    I'm not really sure in what tier list she best belongs. She's almost a ranged champ, to be honest.

    I was running him with Gravetend specifically to get back Exhume Gravewatcher, because that, ironically, is a CD that does matter. I think Tariff is pretty solid -- you're looking at a comparatively large nora swing from each Tariff trigger, and so long as you measure the deployment to coincide with a kill turn, Toll-Taker is barely a tempo hit.
     
  8. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Bone mason kind of sucks, I thought it would increase statue up, but it does not. I don't really trust descriptions of runes. He's still good in skeletons over toh, but that's it. Missing a place in meta.
     
  9. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Out of curiosity, why on earth did you think that?
     
  10. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    I think altar of bones says it heals when it adds max up. Not really sure tbh lel.
     
  11. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Cleric of Unrest moved UP to t1, Stitched Librarian moved UP to t1.5
     
  12. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    what spells do u run ff for libiaran?

    Execution order, decay, reflesh, desecration (that spell sux tho) ? I can't really think of anything besides maybe despoil... how do you get consistency results with librarian in re?

    I run a FW FS split with marsh song and collective, and easy to use FW spells, along with an ed and despoil it makes things really easy.

    Serkan and witches use despoil most effectively, that would be my guess. But liches use so many resources getting set up, that's interesting
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    2 Despoil, 2 Desecration, Hungry Dead, and Snuff. I also have Doom and Dark Rising in there.
     
  14. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    The real reason I think I valued malefice higher is because i really like low cost units, and malefice is 55 nora for low end mass heal + censure + dark healing..

    Healing is definetly more meta than it used to be. If you can take advantage of dark healing, the rune is already better than skull of decay. Well, that is up to preference, but I have to say, skull is weaker than I thought it was. Seism- you really need to screen for it if you are using skull. Opponents can kill ur skull , and still be happy, because allowing for a heal or two to get mad benefit is worth the seism. I don't like having a deck depend on relics.

    Skeletons are different, because bone mines give value when dead, and altars give value on deploy. To go further off topic, even graveyard gives a value on deploy, esp if u 1st turn an adjacent font.
     
  15. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I use skull as the screen. If I'm worried about both Seism and healing, I just play two skulls.

    As for Maleficia, I had success running her with Grace and Curse. Honestly, Dark Healing would be third in line behind Coven. I think having a single Coven champ on the board is excellent because of how it interacts with fonts and Despoil.
     
  16. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    I've been facing a lot of healing recently I take th on her. I use wicked witch for support when I need coven. 59 nora hex with charm of afflict is decent, and there is wicked aura.

    2 skulls is harder to draw than one. They also don't work vs SL, which is a major issue since u take them over dh to counter regen mainly. And takes up more deck space. To be frank, I don't think there is a good counter to healing in general. It's mostly preference and deck builds. But overall healing is really strong. I'm just arguing malefica isn't garbage tier, she definetly has a spot
     
  17. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Removed tags, moved Maleficia from 2 UP to 1.5
     
  18. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Wicked witch needs a placement too
     
  19. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I'm assuming you mean Wretched Witch -- placed at t1.5.
     
  20. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes


    Why is inkblight placed so highly? For a support, her cost is really high. Her survivability is admittedly high, and debuffing close enemies is nice, but she is about 80 nora
     

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