FW (Meta) Beater Champs Tier List

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by kalasle, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Death Guard, Death Harvester removed for new Support tier list.

    Edit: May add them back in, with tier directly related to how well they fill a beater role, and paying less attention to their alternative functions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  2. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Utterdark Levi moved to tier 1. I am so convinced that this champ is good that I have removed it from my testing deck because I would just be deploying it all the time otherwise. It is fiendishly difficult to kill, gets part of its cost back through the (incredibly undercosted) Soultap Feedback, and can warp onto any champion that attacks it, setting up good mobility. With Banner, you're looking at 60 HP, 2 DEF, and Hunter against any attacks for 76 nora, before assessing the 2 back for every attacker. It also has one rounding defense in Vaporize -- normally a good but situational ability, except that Levi also has rank 3 Magical resistance, something that is good in its own right but brutal when combined with Vaporize.

    I have yet to actually field it with Cleric of Unrest, but it'd be good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  3. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Risen yeti is t1.

    Elder vampyres is t1.


    Cackling witch is a tier higher.

    I'd put wandering zombie a tier lower (too situational for t1 imo, dk gives him a legitimate run for his money due to immunity magical, compare to frenzied with black pearl, or zombie behemoth less situational).

    In witches, I prefer wicked as a support not beater.

    Malefice also should be higher, she is a good beater.
     
  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I could see this. I've been more impressed with it than I remembered after re-testing it recently, because it does a lot of overlapping good stuff. The t1 list for beaters is fairly conservative right now for beaters because there are so many of them.

    Again, not a theme tier list. That said, I could double-up on tier list spots and put her in support as well. There are a couple champs where I've thought about doing that, such as Inkblight Witch, who I think has a reasonable spot on both tier lists depending on build and the rest of the deck -- t1 support, t1.5 beater. I test her out with a more support-y build and mindset and see how it goes. Thanks for the note.

    Not yet convinced of this. I don't own the champion to try it out yet, to be fair, but it has not seemed exceptional outside of Liches. Maybe it's a matter of familiarity. I'm gonna have it sit at 1.5 for now without any community consensus or personal experience.

    Could see it -- with Cackle/Roar? You got a recommended build? Just haven't got around to running this one. The reliance on activated abilities to provide durability makes me a bit uncomfortable, but worth a shot.

    Got a build? I don't see anything that makes me think "Yeah, great champ!" Any more comments?

    Been mulling this one over, might agree? I feel like the way to run the champ now is as a 1x with Resist 3, and run it as a specialist deploy against physical-heavy comps, where you can really leverage all its effective HP. Not sure that double WZ makes the sense that it used to.
     
  5. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Voidhowler moved UP from 2 to 1.5

    WZ moved DOWN from 1 to 1.5

    Polluted Martyr moved UP from 2 to 1.5
     
  6. super71

    super71 I need me some PIE!

    Told you wandering wasn't as good as everyone thinks, he's a slow moving melee unit. Sure with another form all that beef is nice but he's still slow and his second form is useless.

    Voidhowler is very strong, his aoe death ability is wonderful, his 1-2 range is nice, an aura, and a dot.
     
  7. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I dropped him because of meta shifts relative to his continue price increases -- that he is a slow moving melee unit is integral to why he is actually good.

    Except I think Leap is the absolutely best build, which I should note in the tier list, now that you mention it.
     
  8. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Malefice better as support, all her upgrades are good but I take dh and God

    Take howling attack defile on cackling, use her same way as moga, except u can auto attack at 2 range.

    Out of theme wz might be t1, in theme he isn't. Situationally l, dk can out class him if they field magic dmg.
     
  9. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I've been running Curse 2 over Dark Healing and really liking her that way. Gives her a ranged attack 2/3 turns, each of which can come with a debuff, and they combo with each other: you can Curse something, and follow up next turn with Censure for the punish. For now I have been running GotD as well, but I may give Divert a whirl.

    That does seem like the way to go -- I was trying Sonic Roar because I figured chaining the Awestruck could be good (you can roar-cackle-roar over three turns), but that still felt so-so. Will try Howling Attack on the next pass.

    I know I just shuffled Martyr up a tier, but I am thinking of doing so again; as the meta gets faster, that champ gets better, because the more pressure you are under and the more that your opponent tries to leverage a tempo advantage, the more value Martyr generates.
     
  10. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    If you are convinced gravewatcher is meta, then also consider pm can't be resurrected.

    I don't consider it a fast meta so much as imbalance. ST units forcing an early game for example, while they have an excellent late is just what it is. Fading recollection removing all abilities instead of only upgraded, is again, just op. Invoke is op.

    In general I also see healing compositions coming back.

    I'm general, everyone is trying to find a way to deal with the new pay to win legendaries, or use them themselves. That's how I understand the game best right now. However, not many people have the new legs
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  11. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Most of this statement makes absolutely no sense
     
  12. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    Fast games are occurring because certain decks field much larger advantages compared to FW attrition / meta, which this tier list is made for. For example, your t1 risen moga might be very strong, but it's not really strong compared to thunder hoof, free 8 speed.
     
  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Speaking of Risen Moga, I've been thinking about dropping it to 1.5. Still not really sure, as I haven't cycled it back into testing.

    And as for FW attrition's general viability, if a trashy version of it can beat TinyDragon's dwarves in a mostly-clean game, I have some hope for optimized versions.
     
    Woffleet likes this.
  14. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    I beat tiny with skeletons, that doesn't mean skeletons are good competitively. My skeketon deck is the best it has been in a long time, but it just isn't comparable. There are some super op bugs right now, and the only decent one in FW is utterrdark... which isn't that good in all honesty. Fading recollection and constrict are much much more powerful bugs (there's probably more too). For that matter I don't really think dwarves are that op right now (and yes, I've seen their absurdity). There's plenty of good players besides Tiny though, let's be honest. Remember what Hitler said "don't compare yourself to others, it is an insult to yourself "
     
  15. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges


    No you didn't. Just checked 15 pages of your match history and you haven't even played against tiny.
     
  16. vipoid

    vipoid I need me some PIE!

    With regard to Arroyo Riftlord, which defence do you think is better - Oblivion Shield or One with Nora?
     
  17. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    It's posted on dicem0ney is the best player alive thread
     
  18. DiCEM0nEY

    DiCEM0nEY The King of Potatoes

    I was considering running bone circle archmage with one with nora over oblivion, because I was going to run a dark apprentice for regen. I think obliv is superior with heals.


    I think kal run a rift with vaporize and logistics speed. I do.
     
  19. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    For Riftlord, I think Ob Shield / Encouraged is the way to go, unless you are specifically building the champ to feed Essence Devourer. Vit: Creation gives it plenty of one-rounding resistance as is, and as such Oblivion Shield can expect to generate much more value when the opponent must engage with it over multiple rounds. Encouraged guarantees that the champ gets damage, and it's the cheapest upgrade. I'd probably (?) take Dictate if it cost the same amount, but it doesn't.
     
  20. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Had a game in which Contained Thrall and Umbral Wulf both did good work.

    Wulf is an awkward champ with its 7 SPD, but Terrorize is a very good ability for the 4 nora and 2 AP. The Vaporize build means that you end up with a champion very close to Soulrender -- 5-7 nora more expensive because of the SPD, but trading off some tempo and mobility for more utility and durability. I don't know if it makes Umbral Wulf a superior include to the Soulrender, but the comparison helps Wulf look better.

    Your assessment of Thrall, @super71 , bore out in the game I played: excellent early deploy for maneuvering around a font. Honestly, it might have won me the game, or at least given me the time I needed to win it with other runes. NKD is great when you want nothing to happen. Not sure about U2, but your argument for Stun or ZA seems good -- Assault just seems too expensive and situational.
     

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