FW Bonus Discussion now with Poll

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by yobanchi, Dec 4, 2014.


Your Thoughts on Bonus

  1. Bonus: +4 / +2 Rune Reveals at start of the game. Boon: %60 Cooldown, Immunity Disease, 25% addition

    12 vote(s)
  2. Bonus: Champions you control have a cool down of 2 / 6. Boon: Immunity Disease, 30% Additional nora

    12 vote(s)
  3. Bonus: 10% / 5% on all champ deaths. Boon: %60 Cooldown, Immunity Disease (nora to 3)

    13 vote(s)
  4. other suggestion noted in this thread (list page# and who)

    5 vote(s)
  1. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    Why not make it this?

    FF: You reveal an extra rune at the beginning of each of your turns, if unable, your rune with the longest cooldown, currently on cooldown, is concealed.
    SF: You reveal an extra rune at the beginning of each of your turns.

    A bit op imo, but at this point, I'm okay with that. ;)
  2. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    As a joke idea:

    FF: Whenever a champion dies, a lvl 1 Festering Corpse with 15 HP is deployed in the closest deployment zone under your control.
    SF: Whenever a real champion dies, a lvl 1 Festering Corpse with 5 HP is summoned in the closest deployment zone you control under your control.

    I know it's ridiculous, but I couldn't resist.

    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  3. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    or broken bones?
  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Difference between 10 hp and 5hp is pretty small. Split faction has a large advantage there.
  5. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!

    Eh, we could make the split one a summon as well. We could also just add 5 hp to the full faction one.

    But it was only a joke anyway. It would be hilariously op.
  6. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Let me posit a hypothetical...

    What would your reaction be if I recommended removing Boon entirely with the intent that down the line specific undead races would get some development?

    My initial thought would be that a few spells/relics would need to be adjusted (Corpse Pile, Festering Wounds, Contagious/Plague trap, Plague).

    Other then that 4 nora across the board would be lovely and shore up a lot of issues with boon and people's feelings that FW units are overcost.
  7. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Skeptical, conflicted.

    If boon is losing poison resistance and fear (a great likely hood) then it provides only a meager benefit. Honestly, what I care about is access to reduced cooldowns in a broad and consistent way. Disease immunity can obviously be worked around, but it is something that much of the faction has incorporated. So, losing boon wouldn't be a huge deal to me, as long as some part of our faction still grants hefty and consistent cooldown reduction.

    That said, I personally don't care a lick for particular races of undead. Skeletons and zombies have things going right now, which is fine, but any elaboration beyond that seems like gilding the undead lily. I do not play FW for particular, neat, specific functionality in several different themes. I don't think losing boon would be a big deal, but cute little moves to differentiate the undead does not sound fun or compelling. Death is the great unifier, even more so than the Draksar blight. Why on earth would we seek to break that up?

    If something like this were to go through, there should be a pretty clear idea of what the developments and changes are going to be before things are fiddled with.
    Woffleet and TeaScholar like this.
  8. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Interesting... @kalasle so you are fine with removal of Boon but not necessarily the Undead as a race.

    Things that would need to change would probably be spells like desecration and festering wounds.

    Some disease immunity or eater could be worked into zombie apocalypse as they would be the ones more in need of that protection due to lumbering/lethargic units.
  9. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I by no means speak for any group other than myself; absolutely no idea if that position is representative of any larger party.

    And yeah, I don't have any allegiance to boon as a mechanic: the larger aesthetics behind FW are why I love the faction. Working important immunities or interactions into the various sub-races sounds like it could work. I would just hate for them to become different enough that they couldn't be played in the same BG. e.g. Zombies getting a lot of disease damage that other undead are susceptible to, and can't easily work around. Ideally, for all their distinctions, those are just character elements that illustrate the different types of undead they are, but in no way hinders their necrotic camaraderie.
  10. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    In this hypothetical case the rune reveal suggestion above would need to be modified to something like -
    Conceal 2 Champion runes on cool down and reveal 2 runes at the start of your turns.

    This way it may not be cool down reduction and more cool down recycling with power being pretty balanced throughout the match. In the beginning you get the extra runes. Middle you may get a few champs picked off cool down and rune reveals still going consistently. Late you get full champ cool down benefit.

    Still hypothetical.

    The on death nora bonus may be a little more tricky. May have to just add it to the current cool down or come up with something more unique to unite them.
  11. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

  12. SireofSuns

    SireofSuns I need me some PIE!


    That could be a good idea, or a really bad one. I see two main issues coming from doing something like that:
    1] It would be extremely punishing to remove Boon and not immediately change everything to adapt to not having it. That would take a LOT of work and a lot more time. Possible, very, but in the long run, would it be worth it when we could simply do other, simpler, things to help instead? (I have no idea, it's an honest question).

    2] Boon is currently what makes the Undead the "Undead" in Pox. Sorta. There are other things that only they do, but is one of their defining characteristics (despite not being much help a lot of the time, except for not hurting ourselves). It would be like removing Regeneration and/or Violent from the Draksar. It's kinda what makes them who they are. I'm a big proponent of things having something about them that everyone remembers them for (Boon, Regeneration, Leap, Surge, Mobility, these almost certainly make each of think of almost the exact same themes in game).

    I personally would like to see one of two things happen in regards to Boon:
    1] Make it more unique in some way. The idea here is to remove the fact that it all it does is mask other abilities they have access to, and then make it more unique thematically, possibly cheaper, and still/more useful to the Undead themes in general.
    2] Remove it entirely and replace it with the necessary abilities that it was masking (most commonly Disease Immunity).
  13. Ragic

    Ragic I need me some PIE!

    IF more development of the racial/class abilities follows THEN remove boon ELSE worry about FW champ efficiency when it isn't lower tier.
    SireofSuns likes this.
  14. Nite2kill

    Nite2kill I need me some PIE!

    Add the immunities/resistances directly to the race

    Humans will have no immunities added to base
    Stitched will loose undead and gain Construct
    Lich, vamp, skelly, spirit and zombie will get a version of boon
    worms will be absorbed into the zombie race
  15. Ujelly

    Ujelly I need me some PIE!

    Why is crypt guardian not a zombie and either is ghoul. What the firk
    happened to fw paladin and why? Ohh and why are our legs trash?
  16. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Didn't they used to be?

    Also, our legs are trash because, I guess, rotting meat doesn't hold up well. Bound to take a speed bump from that.
  17. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

  18. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Not sure what happened to crypt guardian, ghoul, or essence devourer actually.
  19. Ujelly

    Ujelly I need me some PIE!

    Also High Warlock
  20. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Here I am, JUST NOW realizing ghoul isn't a zombie anymore... o_O TF?
    SireofSuns likes this.

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