Future of PoxNora Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KTCAOP, Nov 3, 2019.

  1. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    What seems to be the issue is what I was talking about with Dampen and Tormented Priest so long ago; while Dampen removed/adjusted so that unique abilities and percentages could be phased out of the game, the question will always be where is the hard stop. The issue is will runes be assigned values that can be seeded out, or will Names and STATs always be variable based on developer whim? This is the fundamental concern most of us have, is what we come to find simple or complex going to be “balanced” to the point where there is no foundation?

    Anyone interested watch this; we are all desperately trying to make sense of the matrix that may have been used to build out Runes however I’m doubtful something as simple as a annually-updated punnet square was ever used to draft ideas


    I would like to believe Constructs we’re given a design note that explicitly states Upgrade line one is potentially shared with all other runes and that both Upgrade lines one and two are shared when Spare Parts is able to Bestow from one Construct to another; however I doubt that is the case because we have had so many development eras, that it seems all too complex, but really it has never been worked on in a relatively chronological order. The Cactar Crate has always been a joke and mostly a waste of time.

    What @Sokolov fails to understand regardless of whatever good may have come from his tinkering is that leagues (best example being DoW) was removed; this alone brings every single rune into one mixing pot and does not allow for any pooling of any kind of variable/keyword. @Sokolov still seems to think, along with many others; that formats such as standard and limited or commander if you want to bring in the whole TCG/Competitive format to the discussion is just another complexity to the system which apparently they think is futile. I only say this because that is never the connecting line of discussion, @sok somehow thinks that every new member or anyone he doesn’t remember the username of is entirely ignorant of any kind of practice that is widely adopted and standardized in a lot of circles. Development roadmaps have been common practice for well over a decade and it’s not that novel of an idea to be transparent.

    Always the excuse/reason to delay any kind of comprehensive long term plan that these are the numbers Race:Class:Faction has with Dmg:Type.

    Honestly for someone to say this game is complex and then think that games like Magic the Gathering are any less complex is ridiculous. Pokémon is now almost 1:1 statistically, if you map it out...are we really going to let Pokémon be the base line for the complexity of Poxnora?

    Im not sure what the layman’s bar for simple-complexity is but someone needs to be the forum idiot and just start saying mechanics that are complex for the individual; the ones reading this far will either /ignore you @poxrooster @Bondman007 @Sokolov or they will be constructive and actually try to make one system (of many) more approachable to the masses.

    I can record some videos on whatever system that needs to be explained.
     
  2. polltroy

    polltroy I need me some PIE!

    Id say the last revamp was a very good one and the complexity level now is good. This is not the issue. We are talking about past not the future.

    In the past with every expansion it followed several updates. In the updates alot of runes were fundamentally changed. Also with every expansion the complexity was increased with new special abilities etc. This created alot of frustration to some players like myself. First of all because it was hard to get updated on thousands of runes changed. Second because at some point in the game it was so complex it was hard to get an overview even as a veteran player. Third simply because collecting runes and making BGs became less fun when you knew it was very temporary. Any time your new idea or new BG or theme could be nerfed into oblivion and you had to start from scratch. So in retrospective I could suggest:
    1. business model of new expansion runes = more pwerfull is ok. readjust this with the new runes only, not with the whole runeset adjusting
    2. balance should be made mainly with nora cost so different strategies, BGs, runes etc are not totally changed. It will be easier to come back to the game after a few weeks or months stop and still be able to use and understand the old stuff
    3. less new complexity with new expansions. the old toolset was big enough. just find new combinations mainly

    anyway this are my thoughts about the past, not about the future. about future there are other much more important challenges for devs
     
    aseryen likes this.
  3. haroldkin

    haroldkin The King of Potatoes

    Logging in after many months. Quite honestly expected to find a 404 notice...... All I can say is 'Wow'. OK, now time to get caught up on news.
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  4. badgerale

    badgerale Warchief of Wrath

    This is exactly the kind of complexity that was being addressed: reducing the number of abilities per champ, consolidating the overall number of abilities, as well as standardising the effects to be more consistent.

    You could argue that reducing the number of abilities per champ was ‘dumbing down’ but I think if you were to go back and look at some pre-revamp champs with 20 or so abilities you’d agree they were ridiculous.

    Of course the client side of things was a shitshow that undermined the champ/ability design changes that sok implemented. But those were failings in the programming/business side which sok didn’t touch.
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  5. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    the most-recent design direction of pox was mostly great, it was the technical and business side that destroyed the game.
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  6. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XBdW6y

    Anthony Lopes; 3D model/Texture
    Matt Dixon; Original Artwork
    Rune: Skeletal Berserker/FW - Wrath

    upload_2019-12-22_16-58-20.jpeg


    upload_2019-12-22_16-59-34.jpeg

    https://www.artstation.com/artwork/XBdW6y

    Not sure if this has been shared but seeing this (10 months later) is really good for Poxnora; I asked years ago if 3D models were needed and at the time they weren’t necessary.

    In general Unity may be the engine used for the final game but there are several programs and art styles that can benefit from models such as this, especially if high fidelity ads (not a monitor recorded from a phone) are going to be part of development moving forward.

    Personally, Unity or Unreal, I’m hoping to see some base models (fully rigged or not) to be available for download so that I can work with them in. Autodesk/Zbrush. I can release some of my base models if requested.

    This helps me as a bar to reach in terms of quality, hopefully I have a solid enough pipeline that I can produce assets efficiently.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2019
    Crunplet, haroldkin and newsbuff like this.
  7. poxrooster

    poxrooster The Pox Chameleon

    Here, we are again.

    Then, "Hey, it's Octopi; and we're coming back."

    Now . . . it's more quiet than a dead monk on valium.

    Thanks for the heads up.
     
  8. turtlejam

    turtlejam The King of Potatoes

    I'm late to the party on this forum, but I'd like to put in my two cents.

    I've been playing Pox on and off since 2006, and I don't think complexity is an issue. Pox Nora is not and never will be for everyone. Just like MTG, Pox attracts a certain kind of gamer. One that enjoys tactics, deck building, smatterings of lore, synergy, and most of all, complexity - or at least the potential for complex builds.

    I started playing during the SOE years. I know that's not nearly as long as some of you other vets out there, but I think that's long enough to see how much things for Pox changed. I agree with what seems to be a majority here that the biggest problem was with the dev team itself. Little to no interaction with the community after things started going downhill, which only exacerbated the frustration of new and old players alike.

    After reading through most of the posts here, I can also agree with the majority that balance is definitely an issue. As I said before, I only played on and off throughout the years, but that huge error on my part let me see how quickly new expansions made older runes worthless. MTG and pretty much every game of the deck buidling/card collecting genre has the problem of balancing old with new, so I'm not entirely sure how one would go about fixing that problem entirely while still keeping the players excited for new expansions.

    I first started playing Pox on the PC. I now play on the PS4 and can't play for nearly as long as I used to. That is simply because the PS4 version is AWFUL. Too many button commands. Managing a BG is a nightmare. Scrolling across a map is aggravating. Deploying a rune is frustrating. It's just a bad experience. I'd much rather see a streamlined version of Pox released for mobile devices than navigate through the PS4 version.

    All this being said, I'm still rooting for a Pox revival. Whether that means a complete reboot, a sequel, or maybe a board game that feels like Heroscape (anyone remember that gem of a game?!), Pox is too special to let it be consigned to a dusty top shelf. If nothing works out, then please for the love of all that is good, give the game to the community, because from what I've been reading, it seems like a lot of these people would be perfectly willing to breathe new life into this special game.
     
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  9. newsbuff

    newsbuff Forum Royalty

    May I ask why you continue playing on PS4 if the experience is garbage?
     
    chickenpox2 likes this.
  10. turtlejam

    turtlejam The King of Potatoes

    I no longer have a PC to play on. I would buy one, but I'm a relatively new family man and can't quite spring the cash at the moment.
     
  11. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    We gonna get another update before end of the year or what?
     
  12. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    Theyre probably not working atm.

    What with it being the holidays and all
     
    guokamoli54 likes this.
  13. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    I also play on ps4 now and I really don't find it to be as unmanageable as hes making it sound. The only time it becomes difficult for me is when i'm trying to manage large scale power turns with AP generation.

    But that's something i struggled with on pc too.
     
  14. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    Gameplay may be manageable but the actual issue is the Deck Manager and the fact PoxNora is 64bit for some unforeseen reason. There was a development decision made by some genius that 64bit was necessary to boost community development; this was then agreed and given the green light by another genius that thought they knew how to spend money but I digress...

    Controller support is plausible however its the full game loop that needs to be looked at when talking about having a controller dongle; I would expect the PSN marketplace to do better long term on attracting a playerbase however it will always come down to actually testing the product before release, I would be amazed if DOGs had a PlayStation in their office. Most likely they rocked a 360 for the majority of their development, again cause they're geniuses.

    @newsbuff @themacca If you ever get the chance @anyone try playing on the Steam Controller...I had a blast remapping the controller (not many will I understand I'm a geek) but I liked the controller even more specifically for PoxNora.

    Taking a look at Tilt5 being where I release my game; there's been some talk about Steam Controller even though Valve doesn't offer much support for it. The haptic touchpad is perfect for PoxNora, easy to slide the cursor around the screen and bring up touch-menus; I can manage the entire game loop with just a thumb.
     
  15. soulfire69

    soulfire69 The King of Potatoes

    Thank you for posting this. I haven't seen y'all in quite some time and miss playing. Good to see you're still around.
     
  16. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    Do you guys honestly think they can reach 5m let one 1m?
     
  17. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    When the first question comes to mind is “Track record aside?”

    The odds are ever in their favor...
     
  18. aseryen

    aseryen I need me some PIE!

    From what I’ve seen of code linked here and there, and discussions with @Sokolov json is used as an array/database of sorts and unity can make sense of that data. As for previously how it worked, idk.

    That being said, the general state of Poxnora is less with what code it’s written on so much of who knows what they’re coding. I’m unsure how long one can toot the horn of poor code/infrastructure. After some time in the kitchen, the recipe is all yours.

    Whereas Pokémon has at least a baseline of understanding for entity creation, Poxnora became the bathrooms graffiti wall.
     
  19. chickenpox2

    chickenpox2 I need me some PIE!

    @Daggan any updates on the pox picture book yet?
     
    aseryen likes this.
  20. Flyingfinn

    Flyingfinn I need me some PIE!

    Until the client is at least reverted back I can't give my support
     
    aseryen likes this.

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