Buffs for Next Patch

Discussion in 'Forsaken Wastes' started by voodoov, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. voodoov

    voodoov I need me some PIE!

    FW Buffs for Next Patch

    Sok is starting to collect buff ideas.

    Id wish, that we post and discuss our ideas here before competing with each others ideas in the offical tread.

    Soliciting some ideas for next patch's buffs. Try and keep away from Heroes and Titans as I want to do them as a group (I am sure there are plenty of non-Heroes and Titans people want to see updated).
    [03/16] BUFFS
    • FW
      • Corrupted Guardian - Improvement of upgrade options, particularly defensive/theme-centric options
    Keep in mind, as always, that stat/ability changes are much more likely to receive traction than entire re-designs.

    What Non-Hero, Non-Titan Key champs would benefit us the most?
    What do you miss the most?
    What abilitys are we lacking in FF?

    How many Champs should we collect? 3?

    After we decided for those champs with a general direction, lets start the fine tuning round with stats and costs.

    Id propose that we start with some liches in their commander role? Synergies!
    Or @Kalasles Ideas, we could also focus on Spirits. Can we make them viable with 3 champ changes?
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
  2. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    @Netherzen already mentioned Phantasmal's beautiful damage stat. I brought up Revenant, Soul Collector, and Soulrender.
    Netherzen likes this.
  3. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    In particular, we need to very very seriously seriously address Curse. And by address I mean get rid of it- any champ that isn't a witch has no reason to have curse. It encourages a bg full of cursers, which we don't have enough of, which forces mixing it with witches. So it might as well be a witch thing..
    a few particulars, just off the top of my head:
    - Executioner
    - Anthropomancer
    - Risen Moga
    - Crypt Guardian
    - Crawling Corpse

    If an explanation is required:
    Curse should either be a whole theme (outside of witches) [or at the very least able to stack more than once (when cursed, champ loses 5/8 hp FOR EACH STACK OF CURSE] or it's just outright removed.
    It's just soooo not cool the way it is right now. It's literally keeping specific non-witch champs in the shoebox.
    Having curse as a pseudo theme within themes is quite seriously taking away from the synergy of other themes that AREN'T pseudo-themes.

    Same thing with black death on a Firking skeleton.

    P.S. If they just took curse off of all those champs, and left them with like, a blank ability slot, or just one less ability- they would be cheaper, less sandbagged, and playable. I support loss of Curse without replacement abilities until we further discuss THAT as a separate discussion...
    We must first rid ourselves of this cancerous Curse tumor.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
  4. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    I think we could nail 5 champs, 2 spells, 1 relic, and 1 equip with inoffensive buffs to make them viable, or at least more fun. Going big on changes is going to stir up a bru-ha. I'd rather see a small and carefully curated set of changes which are more certain.

    Edit: I think @TeaScholar is hitting on a good idea: we could make this round of buffs about cleaning up non-Witch Curse effects. That gives these changes a central focus, which both gives them direction and an easier sell. Also, I would love to finally be rid of those awkward, useless abilities on several units. What are all the non-Witch units with Curse?
  5. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    So it seems to be the Curse situation occurred because Curse the ability got changed from a useful psuedo-ranged ability to a theme-centric ability?

    Do people like Curse being this way?
  6. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    It was a mediocre off-ranged option that fit on a couple units. After the changes it feels lack luster. It's 5 nora for an ability which, outside of Witches, few champs will ever use, and none will use happily. I think Curse Rank 2 may be more usable than I've thought it was, but even then, only on a couple champions. For instance, I've been using Curse 2 to some effect on Phantasmal Creeper -- talk about corner case, though.

    I think Curse as an ability is in an alright spot per se, but vestiges of its previous form linger in places they are unwanted.
  7. TeaScholar

    TeaScholar Better-Known Member

    Neh, it's actually more useful NOW than it was before.

    It's just the CHAMPS that the ability ITSELF are on, that simply do not belong.
    If you must keep curse, keep it on witches, not random assorted undead warriors and the like.

    Giving those undead non-witches something other than curse, or like i said, simply NOTHING in return other than getting rid of curse, would be an improvement.
    SireofSuns, Nite2kill and Uruboz like this.
  8. Sokolov

    Sokolov The One True Cactuar Octopi

    Sure. At the same time, some could get alternatives like Hex or things like Throw Axe on Executioner if we wanted to keep a psuedo-ranged attack available.
    SireofSuns, IMAGIRL and TeaScholar like this.
  9. D4rkSteel

    D4rkSteel I need me some PIE!

    That would be nice
    TeaScholar likes this.
  10. D4rkSteel

    D4rkSteel I need me some PIE!

    Some runes just off the top of my head that could use some change:
    - Bonewing
    - General Korsien
    - Defiler Knight
    - Moragen the Lost
    - Aspect of Death
    - Spectral Emmisary
    - Obsidian Venger

    - Liches in general

    - Vampyres in general

    - Skeletons in general
    voodoov likes this.
  11. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Here are the FW, non-Witch units with Curse:

    Carrionling (who can use it to deal damage when either low on worms or far away, making it more useful)
    Cleric of Unrest
    Collection of Souls (who needs more than a Curse change to get his fat butt out of the shoebox)
    Phantasmal Creeper (who has it as his only attack, making it more useful)
    Lich's Servitor
    Crawling Corpse
    Crypt Guardian
    Risen Moga
    TeaScholar likes this.
  12. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Curse was originally range one through four and did 50% damage.

    It was lobbied to get the cost down or make the ability actually worthwhile. We got a little bit of both.

    four instance some people wanted it to be a loss of life. Someone did it to go through defense. So I'm wanted it to remain at the low damage levels but be priced very cheaply as a harass (think feint with curse).

    It's an interesting ability but would have to agree with T scholar that it's sprinkled all the heck over with no rhyme or reason
  13. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    This would be neat, but to its detriment it both costs AP and is on the attack chain.
  14. Djangoguy

    Djangoguy The King of Potatoes

    Things that I like to see (more/back) on FW (no buffs actually):

    *Brain Eater (worms or zombies);
    *Berserker (skelies);
    *Immortality (Liches);
    *Ethereal (Spirits);
    *Preordained (Liches);
    *Streamlined vampyres.
    voodoov likes this.
  15. yobanchi

    yobanchi I need me some PIE!

    Immortality is a horrible sandbag in a faction with low cool downs X_X
    TeaScholar likes this.
  16. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Mainly for taking up an ability slot. It's only 3 nora. But yes, agreed.
    Uruboz likes this.
  17. kalasle

    kalasle Forum Royalty

    Here's my shot at tweaks to the Curse champs. I would also love to tap a couple of our lack-luster non-champs.

    -replace Curse 1 with Disease Breath 1
    Note: This provides him with a +1 nora build that provides some extra power. It's a notable buff to the champion, while keeping other Carrionlings the same.

    Cleric of Unrest
    -U1 to Dictate/Transfer Life 1
    -U2 to Drain 2/Spellsurge: Depths of Despair
    -Ripples to base
    Note: I think deployment-based life manipulation is neat. This champ may have too much internal synergy after these changes, though. Invigorate 2 + Ripples might be too scary. Also, this might break Depths of Despair. Just kicking stuff around with this one. Nora cost from 63-72 -> 66-76

    Collection of Souls
    -currently playing ~8 nora for its stats... (~+30 manual cost; reduce to +10)
    -add 7 base HP (no charge, part of manual cost)
    -remove Soul Linked from this champion and from the game (-10 nora)
    -change U2 to Magical Attack/Soul Channeling
    Note: This would cut him down to about 55 nora off the bat, but make him flimsier. Works better in Death Ben. Maybe still non-viable.

    Phantasmal Creeper
    -remove his useless DMGstat (-16 nora)
    -swap Curse 1/2 with Hex 1/2/3
    Note: I think this would be an enormous, potentially problematic buff -- he would be a more terrifying Ethereal Soldier.

    Lich's Servitor
    -U2 to Throw Axe/Inspire (remove Impart from the game, yo -- the only champs it's on are in this list, and it's a strange, ugly design, not even symetrical)
    -reduce the cost of Aspiring Servant by 5 to 25.
    -replace Surge with Zeal
    Note: This ends up being -4 nora on base, with upgrades potentially increasing his cost. Surge is terrible, but Zeal is awesome. I think he would be playable once a hero change goes through.

    Crawling Corpse
    -U2 to Splintering/Latch On/Evasive 2
    Note: Evasive is probably the clear choice, but the mere existence of the other upgrades adds some flavor. It cuts into his ranged options, but makes it easier for him to get into and stay in melee.

    Crypt Guardian
    -U1 to Relic Guardian/Unstoppable/Bodyguard
    -U2 to Rotting Blows/Rabid 2/Relocate: Relic
    -Slam to base
    Note: Maybe OWN + Bodyguard is a bit much...

    -replace Curse with Throw Axe
    Note: See a trend here? I think Throw Axe is both a damn strong ability and a cool through-line for the pawns of Liches, or war-Liches.

    Risen Moga
    -remove Ally: Shattered Peaks (-5 nora)
    -replace Curse with Howling Attack
    Note: This might make him too cheap -- 38 nora build potential. Any suggestions for an additional, tasteful base ability would be appreciated. People are hating on the efficiency meta-game enough as is.

    -remove Draining Aura from base (-6 nora)
    -U1 to Anthomancy/Spellsurge: Throw Bones/Hex 3
    -U2 to Divine Favor 2/Favor/Dark Favor 2
    Note: Uncertain on this guy. There was a whole thread about him, and he's in an awkward spot. This is one take, but I could toss out a couple more if this looks off-kilter.
    voodoov and TeaScholar like this.
  18. potatonuts

    potatonuts I need me some PIE!

    I've wanted Ally: SP off of Risen Moga for a while now because its a flat out sandbag in FF and i've honestly never even seen it in a split. I think the best option in regard to not making him too cheap is to swap it on to upgrades with either entangle or entangling attack, both of these are very flavorful for a zombie wrapped in bandages.

    Removal of Vulnerability : Fire or an increase to defense/hp could be another way to bump up the cost.

    I could probably write all day long about the changes i'd like to see but off the top of my head;

    Remove sunder from Bladed Corpse, give it more hp/def
    Give festering corpse 5 speed
    Give Mairdred 7 speed and defensive options in upgrades, remove desecrated zone.
    Give Contained Thrall Lumbering, simple fix to an undeployably expensive zombie who is carrying a ball and chain.
    Give Corrupted Guardian defensive options but i already discussed that with Sok
    Throw Necrotaur off a cliff
    Somehow make Moragen reasonably priced
    Give Abomination some more zombie like abilities (dmg shield disease, disease aura, rabid, ZA etc)
    and then there's all the stuff you could do with skeletons, spirits and liches.
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
    voodoov and TeaScholar like this.
  19. voodoov

    voodoov I need me some PIE!

    Cleric of Unrest This is neat! - Drain+Transfer -nice idea shuffling hp arround, thats 4ap for a heal if you have meat arround.
    Favor base would also be a good option.
    The problem with Ripples will probably not occur. He only has 5ap to spend per turn :) Could switch to Haste, but would need 6spd than.
    Is there an ability to shuffle arround ap, like you did with hp?
    But can we utilize all of his abilitys with only 5 spd?

    Collection of Souls: 18+7 base hp? Nah

    Servitor sounds like a "fix all Servants in one go" rune group?
    Battle Matron also has Impart, so dont delete the ability from db after change :p

    Crypt Guadrian:
    Id like to see him Zombie again.
    ..."Note: Maybe OWN + Bodyguard is a bit much..." you mean One With Nora right?
    Bodyguard would really fit him. But op as hell.
    Or more relic centric: Mason, Haunt?

    Risen Moga:
    Ally sp should be on upgrades, not removed right?
    Ideas for Base abilitys added: lets give him Protective back? Random Ideas: Amplify Disease, Blind, Cackle, Mudsling, Soulsift, Stun

    Id like to see aura 2 base for all our festerings summons from apocalypse and plague. Not sure about Real or Catapult Version.
    sounds nice :)
    Id say there is no need to get rid of an ability completely. Its just bad that we are stuck with those abilitys on different Levels.
    Swap Rebuke 2 with Frightful Aura 2.
    Swap Boost 1 with Thirst for Battle
    Swap Boost 2 with Logistics: Flanking


    High Warlock. I miss him the most.
    Man ravish is just not the same as cast: Repurpose. I wish we could get that back.
    If i sack a Death Guard with banner (11dmg 49hp), i get 9hp and 2dmg on cd4 :(

    Add Race: Lich, Zombie
    U2: Swap burn2 for Lethargic
    Add Logistics: Life Siphon base?

    He would land at about ~72n with Lethargic.

    Ill edit this post further
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  20. voodoov

    voodoov I need me some PIE!

    copy from buff tread:

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