Attempt at Discussion: Avatar Interactions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by themacca, Dec 25, 2017.

  1. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    So i'm pretty sure it's the general Consensus to most folks that Transfiguring is easily the most risky move to make in the game. To the point where it's basically left to events where:
    1. The game is won because of what your avatar will do on the very turn it transfigures
    2. You need your shrine to run away to stall so you can destroy their shrine first.
    3. Coolness factor in a game that was won long ago.

    Outside of that in a neutral game transfiguring leaves you down a deployment zone & 20 nora each turn (which is an obscenely high value) In return for this sacrifice you get 1 extremely powerful champion (questionable depending on which faction) which is incapable of interacting with other champions at all besides being attacked & benefiting from a very small amount of AOE non specific friendly abilities.

    On 1 end they're immune to things like barrage, death Pact & hex which is good but being untargetable by enemies only helps a little when you compare it to the fact that it can't recieve any friendly support whatsoever. meaning it can't be healed, can't gain AP through invigorate, can't target with anything like snow shroud which basically leaves them as a ticking time bomb to defeat. This is a pretty large negative tradeoff especially when you consider that they're immune to nearly all forms of enemy CC anyways.

    I have 4 proposals that i think everyone should discuss to see what people think of potential changes for avatars.

    1. Shorter Cooldown on avatar abilities. The avatars special abilities which are meant to be high impact have close to no impact outside of scenario #1 listed above. For example Zarimahl has Corrupt Blast, which i think is CD 6 for 55% disease damage of his base damage. thats AOE 2 11 damage every 6 rounds for 4 AP, an ability like that is not going to swing a game in the avatars favour, or even give you a chance to do so. Semmir the Brave has basically righteous shield, except instead of CD 5 it is CD 8 yet again making it so that an avatar ability is less impactful than that of an ability that is on a champion that could be run for 69 nora.

    2. Give Avatars purified, A champion with rend 3 hits an avatar once, you can't target it with any cleansing abilities. the avatar now takes 15 damage over the next 2 rounds. I'm not saying dots are overpowered but stuff like that is a massive vulnerability for a champion which is such a huge risk to play

    3. Make avatars targetable. Avatars are such massive synergy ruiners that it hurts, transfiguring makes your support units less valuable because the thing you absolutely must protect is completely uninteractable for them. You have less nora now the things you can send out to brawl (& thus support) are going to be much more limited & they aren't going to help you kill things much to swing a battle in your favor.

    4. Retain the shrine deploy zone. You already lose 20 nora per turn you dont need to auto lose the moment your last font is contested
    sirvile and newsbuff like this.
  2. Alakhami

    Alakhami I need me some PIE!

    I think it should be either 1, 2 & 3 or 2 and 4. btw, why was purified removed from them in the first place?
  3. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    i haven't the slightest clue. avatars have recieved lots of nerfs for really no justifiable reason. & thats why theyre so abysmally useless as they are now
  4. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    It seems each avatar has one minor added ability for flavor. KF’s is Purified and I love it. Poor SP’s special minor ability is Immunity: Sonic.
    Ballballer likes this.
  5. Xirone

    Xirone I need me some PIE!

    The Avatars had to go down to 8 abilities so all the abilities would fit in the new rune layout, long ago. Then, for some reason, it was decided that avatar abilities should only have three ranks, instead of six, and so a lot of abilities got nerfed. Many of the lower ranks of Avatar abilities were meant to be passed over for something stronger when the avatar was leveled up but, when the ranks were consolidated, the avatars were left with wonky lower rank abilities.
    sirvile likes this.
  6. themacca

    themacca Master of Challenges

    FW's is boon of the undead :(
  7. Tweek516

    Tweek516 I need me some PIE!

    I'm very against bringing back the strong avatars we had. They definitely shouldn't retain their deployment zone.
    newsbuff, SPiEkY, MogaBait and 3 others like this.
  8. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    what about this:

    no transfigure, but after x->10 turns you can "call" the spirit of the avatar. shrine loses half hp and you deploy at cost x a big unit.
    in this way you cannot run with shrine, you retain a deploy zone but also you get a special champ after midgame to push the match.
    Vash Dragneel and Kampel like this.
  9. Markoth

    Markoth Lord Inquisitor

    IS's is Spell Resistance but I can never recall that actually working.
  10. EternalSeito

    EternalSeito The King of Potatoes

    How about, when the avatar transforms the faction warbanner is summoned next to it as a deployment field? This would make the banner useful in some way other than a mediocre global buff.

    Also, I feel that the avatars should have defining abilities that are not tied down to their faction flavors. No regeneration for the green lizard, no boon etc. Just a set of interesting activated abilities with suitable CD. I don't have ideas to support this by the way.
  11. Etherielin

    Etherielin The Floof Cultist

    Dear lord no - Warbanners are auto as is.
  12. darklord48

    darklord48 Forum Royalty

    I'd rather see Avatars go away and go back to just having shrines.
    Vash Dragneel, SPiEkY, PoxBot and 2 others like this.
  13. haroldkin

    haroldkin I need me some PIE!

    Hear! Hear!

    Probably too late for that, there'd be an outcry from the fact that the Avatars were purchased. They could be toned down. Simply dropping
    their HP advantage would be a big improvement.
  14. bambino

    bambino I need me some PIE!

    id probably go with this, games can be long enough, why unnecessarily extend them.
    If your shrine is being destroyed ,, its kinda of over.
    "But i've come back from the brink by using my shrine"
    an understandable sentiment, but thats like saying if I had another inning added to the baseball game I could win,,, or another 15 min to the soccer match,, I can make a come back... of course .
    at least in rank play,, just end it.

    as well as settling any argument about avatar imbalance.
  15. MaruXV

    MaruXV Corgi Lord of FW

    you could leave shrine, no transfigure, but add some CD powers to the shrine itself
    like i dont know, UD shrine has a CD6 fire blast aoe2, or FW shrine has a CD x summon random skele/zombie... stuff like that
  16. PoxBot

    PoxBot The King of Potatoes

    Pretty much.
  17. SPiEkY

    SPiEkY King of Jesters

    I've seen it work. It at leasts halves Retribution damage, unless it got bugged and isn't working anymore.
    Ballballer likes this.
  18. Kampel

    Kampel I need me some PIE!

    I like were @MaruXV is going.
    My proposal is all players have Shrines and the transfigure ability gets changed to "Avatar Projection"(like spirit of the mountain) where you summon the avatar to protect the shrine, the avatar lasts X turns while you sustain it with nora or the ammount of nora you gain is halfed and some other kinds of interactions like a % of the dmg the avatar takes goes to the shrine. The projection would have a limit of no more than 7 spaces away from the shrine .
    sirvile, sWeNibor, MaruXV and 3 others like this.
  19. Boozha

    Boozha I need me some PIE!

    I like avatars, I think it's a baller concept. But some are far stronger than others, which I dislike a lot.
    sirvile likes this.
  20. Ballballer

    Ballballer Chief Antagonist

    Kampel, themacca and sirvile like this.

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